Episode 118 - Fiona Apple - Tidal - Part 1

[00:00:04] Speaker A: This is our musical reaction breakdown and commentary analysis of this song. Under fair use, we intend no copyright infringement and this is not a replacement for listening to the artist's music. The content made available on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Notwithstanding a copyright owner's rights under the Copyright Act. Section 107 of the Copyright act allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders for purposes such as education, criticism, comment, news, reporting, teaching, scholarship and research. These so called fair uses are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. Now on to the Rock Roulette Podcast. [00:01:14] Speaker B: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Rock Roulette Podcast. That's right, the crazy ass podcast that took over 1300 albums, stuck them in a list, stuck them in a wheel and typically every other week we spin the wheel. She picks a record for us and we go through a track by track and we rate it based on music, lyrics, production, melody, an arrangement. Again, just a bunch of friends who love music wanted to do a podcast. And again, first and foremost, we want to thank all our listeners. Last two weeks have been pretty strong for us. I mean we're not breaking any, any records here for podcasts, but we're, we're definitely picking up listens. I mean we've, we've gone up, we've doubled in some cases. So whoever's listening, thank you so much. Spread the word, tell us what you like, what you don't like, make suggestions. I think Mark will bring something like that up this week and you know, listen to it. Comments, criticisms, whatever you want, man. Just, we'll listen. So we are duo tonight. We have Mark. Oh, hi Mark. [00:02:08] Speaker A: What's up guys? [00:02:09] Speaker B: And I'm set up. [00:02:10] Speaker C: Ciao, Buenos Aires. [00:02:12] Speaker B: So last week we wrapped up what Mark called Nirvana Part 2, at least in the vocals. I don't think he really criticized the music that much, but we did the debut album by Seether disclaimer. So I see there. I know Frankie was saying that I'm technically. But we're like listen, for now we'll leave it like this. So I mean overall, I mean some pretty good ratings. I again, I remember liking it back in the day. I hadn't listened to it in a while. The last time I listened to it honestly hadn't made that much of an impression. But listening to it now, it kind of, kind of kicked in a little bit. I saved a few songs to my playlist and Mark, again, obviously you can talk about your criticisms. I'm not going to Deny what you were saying. I know that overall you definitely like the music if the voice didn't. Hadn't bothered you as much, right? [00:03:02] Speaker A: Well, yeah. I mean, for me the music was really strong. I mean, I liked all the songs, so it's not like I didn't like them. I just felt that there was too much of a Kurt Cobain influence in the vocal. The way he pronounced certain words and did certain things. And again, I think I've. I've figured out that it was probably record company pushing him that way maybe a little bit. And maybe his, you know, being from South Africa, kind of determined that because maybe he learned how to sing and get, you know, get not have an accent because, you know, it's weird when people, they speak with an accent, but then when they sing there's no accent. It's always weird to me. So maybe that's what it was. I mean, I didn't hate the music, but the vocal, you know, and I went back and listened to Judas Mind again. I don't think it's as much as this is. [00:03:45] Speaker B: I mean it could have developed. I mean, I tried going back to not that, but some things that were closer to that. And I mean the style was definitely there. So it could be. Like I said, when I heard Judas Wine as, let's say non stick out ish as his voice is, to put it in a term, I still knew that it was him. So. But again, it could be because I hadn't heard it a while and that's the last thing that stuck out to me. So something good. Early, early 2000s again. You just never know what era she's gonna pick for us. So this is a week where we get to spin again, which is always exciting. But before we spin the big wheel, we get to spin the baby wheel and we get to do our new BET segment. In a world where new music is. [00:04:29] Speaker A: Not easy to find, welcome to new bets. Well, I'm going to let it roll. So that's going to be. I think I'm not going to pick. I'm going to let the wheel do its thing. [00:04:47] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:48] Speaker A: Alrighty. So we ready? Can you see the wheel? [00:04:51] Speaker B: I can see her. [00:04:52] Speaker A: All right, here we go. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Dirty honey, don't put out the fire. So if I had to guess, I'm thinking a little 80s influenced. I could be wrong. [00:05:15] Speaker A: I heard about them when they were on tour with Mammoth wvh. They were co headlining. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:05:22] Speaker A: So I've heard. I've heard some stuff from them but nothing that I can really pick Out. So this is going to be good. I think we'll like this. They were good from what I remembered. [00:05:29] Speaker B: So let's check it out. [00:05:31] Speaker A: All right. So here we go. Dirty honey, don't put out the five. [00:05:36] Speaker C: Oh, this time thought you were satisfied But I didn't know that you would want to leave but don't you put out the fire. [00:05:57] Speaker B: No. [00:06:06] Speaker C: You could have told me done it wrong Now I'm waiting and praying that you're not as good as go I can feel it I confess you couldn't hide that you rise and told me everything before you left now feel it. [00:06:52] Speaker B: So strung out. [00:06:56] Speaker C: You'Ve got me buried and worry and I'm drowning All my stars and down got me hiding from the pain But. [00:07:13] Speaker B: I can't run from a gun and. [00:07:16] Speaker C: Shooting bullets and I call in my name no, I can't Now I can I left my heart in your hands don't put up the fire don't put up the fire don't burn up on fire Are you gonna burn me out? Don't put up that fire I couldn't stand there when you left. [00:08:03] Speaker A: Was it. [00:08:04] Speaker C: Worth all my hurt? You couldn't tell me what you wanted inst. Now you running all over town. [00:08:20] Speaker B: In. [00:08:20] Speaker C: The talk on the streets Y'all been thinking that there's someone you fail Yes, I do Now I'm so insecure I need a little more don't put up a fire to put up the fire to put up the fire oh well I got to, got to, got to say ah see I like to tell you walk away right when you catch me with a brand new flame don't be surprised baby she said I left my heart in your hand don't you wanna stop? Don't put up the fire to put up the fire to put up the fire Baby don't burn me down don't put on my eyes baby don't you ever go fire I don't want to see you by the way no baby don't burn me down Said I'm put under a fire don't put under fire don't put under fire. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Kept thinking that whenever you write a song about fire, considering how many there have been, I think you always have to think of a different way to say the word right. [00:10:43] Speaker A: Did you like it? [00:10:44] Speaker B: I thought it was okay. It wasn't bad, but, I don't know, not incredibly memorable to me. I thought the production to get better. It kind of started a little flat, I thought. But then the chorus was good. I mean, I did like the Voices. I'm always cool with the kind of like the gospel Y voices and I don't know. What do you think? [00:11:03] Speaker A: I liked it. I thought it was good. I mean, I'm still missing the solo in the middle. I don't know why there was. [00:11:08] Speaker B: I thought there was one coming. [00:11:09] Speaker A: Nope. It had a little bit of AC DC in a little bit. Had a little bit of Laurel, Rolling Stones in it. A little bit. His voice is not really a copy of anything to me, so, I mean, there's influences that you can hear that. I thought it was good. I liked it. It's, you know, basic rock and roll stuff. I liked it. It was more throwback than it was 80s. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it definitely. I wouldn't. I wouldn't put that in the. In the 80s. [00:11:31] Speaker A: No, it was good, though. I liked it. [00:11:33] Speaker B: There you go. Another mini one in the books. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I know that some of their albums are on our reel, so maybe we'll get one eventually. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Oh, there you go. Yeah. Be curious if it's all the same in a world where new music is. [00:11:48] Speaker C: Not easy to find. Welcome to New Bets. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Cool. Another new bet's in the two. So now we get to go to the big wheel. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Yes. The mama wheel. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Are you. Are you feeling anything or whether or not you think it's going to come out? Is there something you want? You're still craving that cheesy 80s, right? [00:12:16] Speaker A: I still would like that, but I don't know. I don't think I'm gonna get it. I don't want to try to pick anything because I know that it's going to do whatever it wants to do. [00:12:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm trying to think if I have any premonitions here. I know. I was thinking maybe classic rock, but who knows? Flutter pick. [00:12:35] Speaker A: Right. Well, let's let it do its thing. Are we ready? [00:12:38] Speaker B: I'm ready. [00:12:39] Speaker A: Okay, here we go. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Wow. I didn't even know that this album would be on this list. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Why wouldn't it be? Fiona Apple title now I know very little about her other than the one Criminal song. [00:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah. That's all I know. And the. The speech of the. The awards. That was really it. [00:13:16] Speaker A: All right, we have to look this up. Is this the album with that on it? I don't even know what this is. [00:13:20] Speaker B: I think it is. I could be wrong. I mean, I did like that song when it was out. I thought it was a pretty good song. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Well, I can hear you like her voice because it's. That's kind of in your wheelhouse. [00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah. She's got Kind of that again, Kind of that torchy thing. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah. This is what Criminal is on here. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Looks like there were like three singles. Shadow Boxer, Sleep To Dream and Criminal. All three? [00:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I may know more than I realize. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Sleep to Dream didn't do very much. 28, I guess. Shadow box there, then 32. Criminal was the big one. Adult alternative, it did too. Billboard Hot 100 did 21. So where is she? Where is she from? Do you know? [00:13:56] Speaker B: I don't know anything about her. Honestly. [00:13:59] Speaker A: New York. Okay. [00:14:00] Speaker B: I just remember seeing her video was a big deal. The Criminal video did pretty well. [00:14:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. This was a decent record for her, Right. How much did it sell? 2.9 million, three times platinum. [00:14:09] Speaker B: Nice. I was gonna say probably cleared a million. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So this is 1996. [00:14:13] Speaker B: Oh, is it that late? Oh, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. [00:14:16] Speaker A: Yeah. It's. It's technically poached grunge, right? Technically, yeah. They're calling it chamber pop or jazz pop. Like, I mean, I know the song and I like that song, but I know nothing about her. [00:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, she was. I mean, that was kind of an era I don't remember. Like, I know Tori Amos was still kind of big at this point. [00:14:35] Speaker A: Well, wasn't it the time of all the singer songwriter girls that basically. Right, yeah. [00:14:40] Speaker B: I'd have to look it up because, I mean, last week I said corn was 2,000. [00:14:43] Speaker A: Joan Osborne and Sheryl Crow. 96, probably. Right. [00:14:49] Speaker B: She probably had something going on in 96. [00:14:52] Speaker A: There was all singer songwriters then with Jewel. Right. That was around this time, too. Matt Chamberlain plays drums. Matt Chamberlain? No, that's not the guy. We're thinking different guy. Well, he played with Pearl Jam, Eddie Burkell and the New Bohemians, David Bowie, Tori Amos, the Wallflowers, Elton John, Bob Dylan, Garbage, Soundgarden. [00:15:10] Speaker B: You think of Matt Cameron. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Matt Cameron. Thank you. It was the Matt that threw me off. Yeah. Okay. But he's played with a lot of people. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:16] Speaker A: He was the second drummer of the band Pearl Jam and played with them for three weeks in the summer of 1991. He was in their music video for a live. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:15:25] Speaker A: I didn't even know that. [00:15:25] Speaker B: I didn't know that either. [00:15:27] Speaker A: He filled in for Matt Cameron in Soundgarden. Didn't even know that. He's a big session guy. I mean, there's lots of stuff on here. There's bas guitar, there's string arrangement violins, there's pedal steel. There's tons of stuff. So this is probably going to be not a pretty Straight ahead record. [00:15:41] Speaker B: I wouldn't think. No, I don't think so. [00:15:43] Speaker A: Probably Andrew Slater is the producer. I don't know who that is. [00:15:46] Speaker B: I know A.C. slater from say by the Bell. [00:15:51] Speaker A: Maybe that's his brother. [00:15:52] Speaker B: That's him. Yeah, that's his TV brother. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Let's let me pull up these lyrics and then we can get going. This is interesting. This is 90s. I just have not heard this at all. Besides the one song I like, I. [00:16:05] Speaker B: Didn'T even know this was on the list. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I threw a lot of 90s on the list and I knew it had a big single on it, so I figured, you know, maybe we'll like the rest of it. Who knows? I don't know. [00:16:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I never listened to it, so. [00:16:16] Speaker A: It's 51 minutes. It's one of those. [00:16:18] Speaker B: Is it really? Hot damn. [00:16:20] Speaker A: 10 songs, 51 minutes. [00:16:22] Speaker B: You got your money's worth with this record. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Well, it's the CD time, right? Let's put as much as we can on here. You got a bunch of five minutes long. A lot of four minute songs. Only one three minute song. Cool. I'm excited. This is something. I mean, I don't know if I'm going to like it, but I'm excited to hear it. I like one song. That's good. [00:16:38] Speaker B: Could be good. [00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So are you ready? Ready to do this? [00:16:41] Speaker B: Ready? Yep. [00:16:42] Speaker A: All right. This is Sleep to Dream. [00:16:57] Speaker C: I tell you how I feel but you don't care. I say tell me the truth but you don't dare you say love is a hell you cannot bear. And I say give me my back and then go there for all I care. I got my feet on the ground and I don't go to sleep to dream. You got your head in the clouds. You'll not know what you seem. This mama's body and this voice cannot be stopped by your deviant way. [00:17:38] Speaker B: I like the percussion. [00:17:40] Speaker A: I know this song. [00:17:41] Speaker B: I think I know this song really well. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Yeah, as soon as you started singing, I knew this. [00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I do know it as well. It did sound familiar. [00:17:49] Speaker A: It's very 90s because it's very bare in the effect department. Like the drums are super duper bare, the vocals are super duper bare. But she has such a unique voice. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely like her voice. I'm not. I'm not digging the song again. It's one of those run ons where you don't know you're in the chorus until she kind of mentions the name of the song. [00:18:10] Speaker A: Well, we'll See, I'm gonna read some lyrics. Lyrics don't seem to be bad, though I tell you how I feel but you don't care. I say tell me the truth, but you don't dare. You say love is a hell you cannot bear. And I say give me mine back, then go there for all I care. And the chorus is, I got my feet on the ground and I don't go to sleep to dream. You got all your head. You got your head in the clouds. And you're not all of what you seem. This mind, this body and this voice cannot be stifled by your deviant ways. So don't forget what I told you. Don't come around. I got my own hell to raise. Lyrics are pretty good. [00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Lyrics are good. [00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. But, you know, it's very 90s, the sentiment. Lyrics, it still hasn't, you know, it's only, you know, two years post grunge. Right. So this is the. The depressing part of the 90s is still going strong. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Well, I think a lot of people kind of spoke, you know. [00:19:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Obviously the 80s was a lot of party stuff and kind of. And that was a backlash. Like, well, what do you wanna. What do you want to hear? Sad stuff in music and stuff. Well, I mean, people talk about how they feel. You know what I mean? Meanwhile, a lot of those bands wound up doing stuff like that, too, so. [00:19:28] Speaker A: Well, they had no choice. The music changed around them and either they were gonna stop or they were gonna try to change. And unfortunately for them, most of the time it didn't come off authentic. And I think that's really. Even if the music was good, even if the stuff was good, it just didn't feel authentic because one, you know, a year before, you were talking about partying and doing whatever you were doing, and now you're super depressed. You want to kill yourself. Like, you know what I mean? [00:19:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think the music wasn't that great either. [00:19:54] Speaker A: No, but I'm saying. But what. Even though. Even if it was true, it didn't matter because it felt fake. That that was the problem. Because I think there are some albums that have some good stuff. It's just. You can't take it seriously because it was just. It was Too much of a 1, 180, you know what I mean? Just too much of a change. [00:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:15] Speaker A: No one was coming to Poison to hear this. You know what I mean? Pick whatever band you want from the 80s that was big. It's impossible. Warrant, whatever. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Another one, Poisoned. What's it Called Native Tongue. That was earlier, right? In the 90s? [00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Because we did. We did Flesh and Blood and. What was that, 91? [00:20:33] Speaker A: I think so. Yeah. [00:20:34] Speaker B: Yeah. So Native tongue was probably. Well, I mean, 93, maybe, but still kind of went up there. [00:20:40] Speaker A: It was still. It was a little more serious, but it wasn't this, or. I mean, this is not grunge, obviously, either. This is definitely different. I like the drum part. I'm a feeling I'm not going to get a lot of guitar in here. I'm thinking. [00:20:50] Speaker B: No. [00:20:51] Speaker A: No, I don't think so. All right, here we go. [00:20:59] Speaker C: I have never been so insulted in all my life. I could swallow the seeds twice down all this pride. First you run like a fool Just to be at my side and now you run like a fool but you just run to hide and I can abide. I got my feet on the ground And I don't go to sleep to dream. You got your head in the clouds. Yeah, not at all what you seem this mama's body and this voice cannot be stifled by your deviant way. So don't forget what I told you don't come around. I got my own hell to raise. Don't make it a big deal. Don't be so sensitive. We're not playing a game anymore. You don't have to be so defensive. [00:22:00] Speaker B: I don't think you're getting a guitar. [00:22:03] Speaker A: No. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Imagine just like this, like, ripping solo that just comes out of nowhere. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not gonna happen. And you know what's funny, though? They're doing some interesting musical stuff behind it, though. Even though it's really the music not changing. I guess the music's changing a little bit. Her delivery is very deadpan. [00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's just kind of her style. [00:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I kind of like it, though. [00:22:23] Speaker B: It's not bad. I mean, I'm not, like. It stinks. I'm still kind of, like, absorbing it, you know what I mean? [00:22:30] Speaker A: It's got a little bit of a jazzy thing going on, too. I don't know why I feel that way, even though it's not really jazz. [00:22:35] Speaker B: Well, she's kind of got that torch, that torch singer, you know, that thing kind of, like, drawly, you know what I mean? I think she kind of brings that to the. [00:22:44] Speaker A: I can't dig it. Well, especially coming off her last album, where I like the music a lot, but the vocals didn't move. No, you know what I mean? Like, her voice is, like, super recognizable. I mean, she doesn't sound like, anyone I would listen to, I can tell her from, like, right off the bat. And I didn't remember this song until it's. As soon as she started to sing, I'm like, oh, I know the song. I forgot that I even knew this song. [00:23:04] Speaker B: I forgot to. [00:23:05] Speaker A: Honestly, if you can get people back and have them remember stuff by the way your voice sounds. As far as the singer goes, you're doing something right. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:13] Speaker A: I mean, again, I didn't hate the thing last week, but this is more. Okay. I like this because she's doing her own thing and she's very recognizable. So I kind of like. I don't know if I'm gonna like the rest of the record. I don't know if I like any of the songs here. As far as her voice goes. I like her voice. So verse two is, I've never been so insulted in all my life. I could swallow the seas to wash down all this pride first you run like a fool Just to be by my side now you run like a fool but you just run to hide and I can't abide so obviously he wanted her, and then all of a sudden, now he's. Doesn't want to be with her anymore. And she doesn't. She doesn't like that. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:49] Speaker A: And then the bridge is, don't make it a big deal. Don't be so defensive. We're not playing a game anymore. You don't have to be so defensive. I said I read that wrong. Don't make it a big deal. Don't be so insensitive. Sorry, I'm not playing a game anymore. You don't have to be so defensive. I mean, you could have worked the other way, too. You could actually swap the sensitive and defensive and it would work on both of those lines. [00:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [00:24:14] Speaker A: So what do you think? I sound like? You're really, like, into this too much. [00:24:18] Speaker B: I don't know if I'm. I don't dislike it, but I don't know. I guess maybe I'm looking for a little bit more dynamics in it. Maybe that's what it is. So I think it's interesting. That's one thing I will give it, and I don't dislike it, but it's not pulling me in either. You know what I mean? But I'm kind of absorbing it. [00:24:39] Speaker A: It's taking some chances, though. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:41] Speaker A: For, you know, what was happening prior to this, for this to come out. This is a little bit of a chance. [00:24:46] Speaker B: Yeah. But I mean, with some of the stuff that was going on at that time, I mean, Tori Amos was. She was doing a lot of interesting things with. With instruments and piano and orchestration. I mean, it is of its time, which is fine. I mean, listen, I know we've said that before, but at the same time, this can come out now and still be fine. And again, I think it is because a lot of the 90s music has found the. A lot of the indie, what they call indie now. Like, I've had the conversation with my son, I said, when you call Indy now, even though there's indie and alternative and it. Some of it blends. But that's a. Back in the day, we just called that alternative. I mean, technically speaking, I think she would have been in that class, you know, I mean, this isn't something mainstream. Poppy, obviously. [00:25:34] Speaker A: No, she never could have came out, what, six or seven years before. There's no way. She had to have the grunge alternative thing hit first before this could happen. It opened it up a little bit more to maybe a type of music that you could get away with this. [00:25:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it made way for a little bit more, I think the 90s, I mean, you know, we talk about all the time. There's definitely some good stuff going on in that. In that decade. [00:25:58] Speaker A: 1991 was a great year for album releases. If you look at what got released in 1991, you're like, holy crap. [00:26:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Yeah. It's crazy. All right, so let's continue. Here we go. [00:26:07] Speaker C: Leave me your case? Don't bother to explain? Don't even show me your face? Cause it's a crying shame? Just go back to the rock from under which you came? Take the sorrow you gave? And all the stakes you claim? And don't forget the blame. I got my feet on the ground? And I don't go to sleep to dream. You got your head in my clouds? And you're not at all what you seem. This mama's body and this voice Cannot be stifled by your deviant way. So don't forget what I told you. Don't come around? I got my own hell to breathe? I got my feet on the ground? And I don't go to sleep to dream. You got your head in the clothes. And you're not at all what you seem. This mama's body and the voice cannot be stifled by your deviant way. So don't forget what I thought. [00:28:11] Speaker B: Yeah, so, I mean, there's definitely some interesting stuff going on there, I think. Had it opened up earlier a little bit more, you know what I mean? Kind of progressively opened up and opened up and opened up. I think it would have had more of an impact to me because I think what's going on is interesting. It's not just whatever. I mean, that's really my only thing. [00:28:36] Speaker A: I do like her. I was reading through the chorus again. I do like the. The words in the chorus are actually this parts of it I really like. Like I got my feet on the ground and I don't go to sleep to dream. So what do you go to? What do you go to sleep to do? This mind, this body, and this voice cannot be stifled by your deviant ways. That's a fairly mature lyric. I do like the lyrics. Did she write all this? I'm curious now. It doesn't really say. [00:29:01] Speaker B: I would think so. [00:29:02] Speaker A: Doesn't say. There's some weird stuff here. There's an Opt Again. What the hell is an Opt Again? An Opt Again is an electronic keyboard instrument designed for the consumer market. It's the name stems from the instrument's reliance on pre recorded optical soundtracks to reproduce sound. I've never even heard of that. [00:29:17] Speaker B: It's gotta be that weird kind of one thing going on, I would think. [00:29:22] Speaker A: And then there's a Chamberlain, which is a keyboard instrument that was the precursor to the melodron. So she's using lots of weird stuff. I think I heard a little bit of guitar in here too. [00:29:32] Speaker B: Well, that Janet, right? [00:29:35] Speaker A: Yeah. That's all I'm gonna get. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Why don't you go first? I'm curious to see what you're gonna give this. [00:29:40] Speaker B: I mean, honestly, I was thinking straight sexes at this point. I kind of want to be conservative. It's. It's not bad. But again, it didn't pull me in. I think the most interesting stuff was kind of at the end. But I mean, you know, the lyrics are good. I'm being, again, conservative with the lyrics because I don't know what's coming. And just kind of based on a first listen. I mean, that's. That's where I kind of stand. Middle of the road. But again, it did get more interesting later on. And again, I think if it kind of built the way it built at the end throughout the song and then kind of came to like a crescendo. I just. I would have liked it more especially as the first song on the record. What do you think? [00:30:20] Speaker A: I have a. I guess I have a little bit differing opinion. I'm gonna say seven on the lyrics because I do like the lyrics. Trying to think, do I like the melody? I think, I mean, I do like the song. I do remember liking the song back in the day. So maybe I'm going to give seven on the melody and six on everything else just because, I mean, the vocals are a little bit super duper dry, which is not. Which I know is the thing for then. And the drums are super duper dry, which is again, for the 90s. That's kind of what happened. But I mean, I don't hate it, so I kind of. I kind of like it. I'm curious to see what else she does because I know this song. [00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, like I said, kind of metal, you know, And I don't dislike it and I don't. [00:31:00] Speaker A: The next song, which I'm interested because I don't know if I know this is Sullen Girl, no clue. It's the shortest song on the record. So let's see what this does. Here we go. [00:31:31] Speaker C: Days like this I don't know what to do with myself all day and all night I wander the halls along the walls and under my breath I say to myself I need fuel to take flight there's too much going on but it's calm under the waves and under blue of my. [00:32:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I like this better. [00:32:29] Speaker A: This is generally not my thing, but I do kind of like it. [00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it definitely reminds me of some of the. The newer jazz songs. Songfrises. Is that a word or just fucking? I think that's what it is. When I say new, I don't mean new. I mean of the. Of that genre. Obviously it's been going on forever, but some of the newer things. And I got. I could name probably three or four of them, but I can't think of any of their names right now. But yeah, it has a little bit more of that. That feel to it. And I think the production is. Is very good and I like the melody and I mean, her voice is tailor made for something like this. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. She plays piano too on this. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's within the singer songwriter thing, except that most of them were playing guitar. Right. This is more piano based. It seems like there's gonna be a lot of piano in here. So that's how it differentiates itself a little bit too. Right. Because it's not just the guitar, you know, acoustic guitar girl singing. Right. Because that was a lot. What was going on. [00:33:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, obviously Tori Amos was the other big piano singer. I need to bring her up again. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, they do compare these two together. So verse one is days like this. I don't Know what to do with myself all day and all night I wander the halls along the walls and under my breath I say to myself I need fuel to take flight Chorus. And there's too much going on but it's calm under the waves in the blue of my oblivion under the waves and the blue of my oblivion so far no name of the song in the chorus. [00:34:01] Speaker B: No. [00:34:02] Speaker A: That's going to change. But not what you think. But not what you think. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:11] Speaker C: Is that why they call me a solemn girl Girl sullen girl they don't know I used to sail the deep and tranquil sea but it washed me sure and it took my and left an empty shell of me there Too much going on but it's calm under the blue of my pal under the blue of a mile It's. [00:36:42] Speaker B: I like that one better, personally. And I do. And I do like the fact that it had. It didn't sound anything like the first one. So it's like two pretty diverse songs back to back. [00:36:53] Speaker A: I say it's ballsy to do that. That's what I say. It's definitely not a song that you would. It's definitely not a radio song. This is definitely an album track. [00:37:03] Speaker B: No, I like. Yeah, yeah. She's writing for herself, which is what you should do. [00:37:09] Speaker A: Do I have any more lyrics to read? Let's see. I guess I have second verse. So is that why they call me a sullen girl? Sullen girl they don't know I used to sail the deep and tranquil sea but he washed me shore and he took my pearl and left an empty shell of me so it could be kind of a breakup thing, right? [00:37:26] Speaker B: No, I think it's much, much worse than that. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Is that a rape thing? [00:37:31] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that makes sense. [00:37:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Fortunately, it's 12 years old. [00:37:39] Speaker A: Well, there you go. Well, again, this is definitely not a radio fan, so. [00:37:43] Speaker B: But, I mean, just the way she portrayed it in words is really, really good, I think. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Yes. Well, it's very ambiguous. It could be lots of things. So it was. It was portrayed very well. I liked it. Like I said, this is not usually my thing. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Understand what it is. You know what I mean? [00:38:00] Speaker A: I don't know what to do with the lyrics. Lyrics are good, but I don't want to, like, throw my. All my stuff at this right away. So I'm gonna say seven on lyrics, down on the melody. I mean, I think I'm going to do. I think I'm going to do seven all the way across, because I don't really know what this is going to be yet. So I'm going to throw sevens across because I do like it. And if I throw sevens across, that means I have to do this. Nikki titty baby, quintuple 7. What do you think? [00:38:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm actually going to do the same. I'll do sevens across. Nikki titty baby darling it's Quintuple seven. Is that Freddie Mercury? [00:38:35] Speaker A: Yes, it is. [00:38:36] Speaker B: Nice. [00:38:37] Speaker A: You probably could do a little higher if you wanted to. [00:38:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's. I mean, that's kind of where I was, was the whole. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah, the production was better, I thought. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it was cleaner. I mean, it's a different type of song, too. I mean, at least you know that the. The producer's handling different things in different ways, I think, which is good. So it isn't kind of like, hey, we'll just push everything in the middle and just record. Sounds like he knows how to add nuances and so. [00:39:04] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so the next one is Shadow Boxer. So this was another single. I don't know if I know this. All right, here we go. [00:39:27] Speaker C: Once my lover now my friend what a cruel thing to pretend what a cunning way to condescend Once my lover but now my friend. Oh, you creep up like the cloud and you set my soul at ease Then you let your love abound and you bring me to my knees. Oh, it's evil, Bab. The way you let your grace enrapture me when will you know I being the same to ever that dirty game recapture me. You made me a shadow box of baby, I wanna be ready for what you do. [00:41:18] Speaker B: So I like the melody on the verses. I feel it stumbles a bit, though, as it gets towards the chorus. And in the chorus, almost like. I mean, again, I don't like the song. This is not play on her. Kind of didn't know where to go. I don't think it's bad and I think the production is good. And I mean, technically, this is. I mean, I love jazz, so it's kind of. Kind of got that feel to it, but just some of the. I guess the melody is throwing me off a bit, which happens sometimes when I first hear something and then come the second time I hear it. Either it gets worse or sometimes it even gets better. So I was like, oh, I don't really notice it as much. So. But I definitely feel a little bit more of what was going on in the one before. And then what's also going to happen in Criminal here, I think. What do you think? [00:42:05] Speaker A: Well, this Is the. This is the first single, so I don't think it is. You know, once Criminal came in, I think that's why Sleep the Dream probably did a little. A little bit better because she kind of hit with that thing. And then she had the second song, third song, technically. So, yeah, there's a little weird thing in the melody. I mean, it is very jazzy to me. Not that I follow jazz, but it just feels that way. Maybe because of all the piano and it's. And it's her vocal, too, the way she phrases things. [00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:30] Speaker A: And again, very unique voice. [00:42:31] Speaker B: Yeah, she's got a good voice. I mean, definitely nothing, nothing wrong with the voice. It isn't as if she's going somewhere where her voice can't take her. I mean, she uses her voice well. Just that melody is a little. [00:42:43] Speaker A: And she's very different than the other singers that are out in her solo girl thing at this point, too. Her voice is a lot deeper, so I like it. And her words are very good, I have to say. So I'm going to read some of that. First one is Once my lover now my friend what a cruel thing to pretend what a cunning way to condescend Once my lover and now my friend oh, you creep up like the clouds and you set my soul at ease Then you let your love abound and you bring me to my knees and then pre chorus is, oh, it's evil, babe the way you let your grace enrapture me when well, you know I'd be insane to ever let that dirty game recapture me and then choruses. You made me a shadow boxer, baby I want to be ready for what you do I've been been swinging around me Because I don't know when you're going to make your move so supposedly it's about a boy, a boyfriend that she had when he was a teenager and he mistreated her. Then he came back and she couldn't be friends with him for a while. Then he wanted to be friends with me because he wanted to have the option of making a move on me wherever he wanted to because I was so infatuated, fell in love with him, and I was always available. So it's just like her struggling with that relationship, I guess. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you can pretty much tell. [00:43:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:00] Speaker B: What's going on? Well, it's funny she says teenager because, I mean, she was 19 when she released this album, so I guess she meant a younger teenager. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Yeah, probably younger than her, I guess. All right, let's continue. Here we. [00:44:29] Speaker C: Oh, your Gaze is dangerous and you feel your space so sweet if I let you get to you who close? You set your bell on me darling I just wanna stay Just in case I don't come through I was on tour every play I just wanted you oh, it's so evil, my love the way of no reverence to my concern so I'll be sure to stay wary of you love to save the pain of once my flame and twice my burn so I'm a shadow box of. Baby, I wanna be ready for what you do I've been swinging around and nothing I don't know when you're gonna make your move yeah, I'm a shadow box up Baby I wanna be ready for what you do and I've been waiting around Because I don't know where you make your mouth you. [00:47:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so, I mean, honestly, it didn't bother me as much a second time. It didn't feel as jarring. And nothing was jarring in the first time. But I liked. I really liked the verses. I wasn't crazy about the pre chorus or the chorus, but now it just flowed better to me for some reason. And I don't know if she changed anything. I don't think she did. Yeah. I mean, that encore was kind of cool too. I. I like the way the guy uses. What is a steel. He said guitar. It's outside, right? It's. Or it's. Whatever. [00:47:59] Speaker A: Well, it was pedal steel, but I don't know if it's on that track or not. I have to look. [00:48:03] Speaker B: I thought I heard some in the beginning. I could be just confusing it with the. With the first one. [00:48:07] Speaker A: No, there's no pedal steel in that. There's some weird keyboard stuff. That's what it is. [00:48:12] Speaker B: I would have liked it, honestly, if she did that violin stuff. What sounded like going on in the back. I could be wrong. [00:48:20] Speaker A: No violent on that. [00:48:22] Speaker B: Oh, my God. What the fuck was that noise in the back? Was that. What was that going on? [00:48:27] Speaker A: There's a vibraphone. There's just tons of like keyboard stuff. You're hearing lots of keyboard. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:33] Speaker A: Oh, you know what? It was probably. It was the opt again. That's what I think it was. That's the thing I was reading before. That's on. No, that's on three. That's on two. Now this piano. There's vibraphone, there's tac piano, there's. What else is on here? Chamberlain on here. So, yeah, this is all. There's no guitar in this at all. And this is all. Just keep Weird keyboard stuff. [00:48:56] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. Whatever. The thing was going in the back was like, I wasn't crazy about that part, the outro. Like, whatever was going on the first song, which I liked. I mean, I like this one too, which I liked less than this one. I like that outro better than this. Whatever was going on there as opposed to this. I mean, listen, it doesn't ruin the song for me. I'm not going to say, oh, if it wasn't for that part, I would have given it this. But I just. I would have liked something different there at the end, kind of. Even if she did some sketch or some stuff on the piano maybe would have been cool. [00:49:31] Speaker A: I like the weird. There's that weird dissonant notes there at the end there. They're not really in key. It's very jazzy. It's just very, like, out. [00:49:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, the main music I have no problem with. And like I said, even the part that I didn't like before, I didn't mind as much this summer. [00:49:48] Speaker A: And I do like her arrangement. I'd like that she does two verses in a row. [00:49:52] Speaker B: I like that, too, because I really like the verse in the song. [00:49:55] Speaker A: She kind of did the right thing there. I think that. I mean, the song's long. It's over five minutes. So it went pretty quick. It felt quick. [00:50:01] Speaker B: Yeah. It didn't feel like it. [00:50:02] Speaker A: All right, let me read the two verses. Verse three is, oh, your gaze is dangerous and you fill your space so sweet if I let you get too close, you'll set your spell on me. And then verse four is so darling. I just want to say, just in case I don't come through, I was on to every play. I just wanted you. So she knew everything that was going on, but she decided to you, that's what you wanted. And then I think the pre chorus is the same. Is it? No, it's different. So the pre chorus is, oh, it's so evil, my love the way you have no reverence to my concern so I'll be sure to stay wary of you love to save the pain of once my flame and twice my burn. And then back to the chorus. I guess I'm going first on this one. Let's see. I mean, the lyrics are good. I'm going to stick in the seven with the lyrics again. It's hard for me to judge where this is going to go. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I guess you got to just do it in the moment, right? I mean, if we start comparing stuff I did say, especially in the U2 one, where if you start comparing then you might give something lower than you really want to. So we need to be in the moment, I think and say, okay, well if this is the only song that I hear from her, what would I give it? [00:51:14] Speaker A: I'm gonna do sevens except for arrangement. I'm gonna do eight and I'm production, I'm going to do seven. So I think the arrangements unique enough for me to give a different. A different score to. Just because I like the two verses in a row. What do you think? [00:51:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I'm going to do sevens across the board. I mean, I like it and like I said, whatever I didn't like the first time didn't bother me as much a second time, which was kind of like that melody in the chorus and even the pre chorus beginning, I didn't like as much as I did the second time. And I do like that she does two verses because I like it in the. In the verses. And her words are, you know, they're good. I mean it's. They're not right on the nose, they're kind of left or right. But you understand enough what she's saying and I like the way how she puts it. And again, I'm a big fan of jazz, so just the fact that it has even elements of jazz to me is pretty cool. So, yeah, pretty good song. [00:52:05] Speaker C: It's groovy, man. [00:52:06] Speaker B: It's quintuple. [00:52:07] Speaker C: Seven Nikki Titty Baby. [00:52:09] Speaker B: I think Hendrix would have been into this probably. [00:52:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very. Again, it's. It's a very. For what was coming out. To put something like this out is, you know, and for it to do. [00:52:20] Speaker B: Well, that's what it is. I mean, you know, there's music like this, but what hits the mainstream because I think some things get pigeonholed in. Oh, well, this is jazz and that's it. But this sounds like jazz, but not exactly. So it's like we can put it and the top 40, but all these other women who sing and like that, straight up jazz or. Or even stuff like this. I mean there's good stuff out there that people don't hear, unfortunately. But yeah, I mean, I can understand how something like this, like. [00:52:54] Speaker A: Oh, what's this? [00:52:54] Speaker B: Kind of some jazzy but poppy. So. [00:52:57] Speaker A: Right, well, we'll come to the big one. This is criminal. This was a Grammy winner, so she won best Female Rock Vocal Performance. She was nominated for best Rock Song, which is kind of funny because it. Is it really rock though? [00:53:10] Speaker B: I don't think so. [00:53:11] Speaker A: No. I mean, maybe this song, a little bit more. [00:53:13] Speaker B: Maybe I consider this more pop than rock. Honestly. Personally? [00:53:18] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, here we go. This is criminal. [00:54:00] Speaker C: When a girl will break a board Just because you can don't you tell me to deny I don't know I want to suffer for my sickness I've come to you cuz I need guidance to be true But I, I just don't know where I can begin what I need is a good defense Cause I'm feeling like a criminal and I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of a love. [00:54:50] Speaker B: It'S funny because I don't know that I've ever heard this song from the beginning. So kind of that beginning stuff, I mean, obviously you know what song it is. It's like, I wonder if that was. If there was a different. Obviously a lot of times it would release different versions for videos or. Or reading the. The single. I do like the. I always remember the drum in this. Because when he does kind of like that repeat film where it's almost like, I like that. I've always kind of liked the way he did that. Obviously anybody listening to the radio at this year and this year would know this song. [00:55:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's much more straightforward. And from what I gather here, like, she wrote the song in 45 minutes, said everyone else went to lunch and I had to have a hit. I can force myself to do the work, but only if someone is right up behind me. So this is a 45 minute writing thing. And she ended up with a big hit. [00:55:49] Speaker B: As musicians, when you're in the corner to write a hit, you can do it. Because ultimately you may or may not know what will sell and what won't sell. But I think you have an idea what could sell, right? I mean, even when we were writing music during, I guess the early 90s or our stuff was kind of criticized of not being of that time and it wasn't 80s, so I don't know what time it was supposed to be. Honestly speaking. I guess it was still kind of late 90s, early, early 80s. But I mean, if we had to sit there and write something that we thought was a hit, I'm sure we could have done it so well. [00:56:31] Speaker A: I think a lot of people are like that too. And, you know, and. Well, not everybody. No, some people can't be forced to write a hit. You know what I mean? Although there's the famous Janie Lane thing, right. Where they needed a hit For Cherry Pie. And he wrote Cherry Pie. [00:56:42] Speaker B: And how long did that take him? [00:56:44] Speaker A: Like, I don't know. It was really super fast. Yeah, I mean, listen, the other songs on this album, I mean, the ones. The two that came before this were not going to be on the radio. They're just. It's not a radio song. This has some of the elements of what she does, but it's more friendly for the average listener, I think. And that's why it. It did what it did. And I don't think the video helped it. Heard it. Heard it either. Although she doesn't like the video, the video did help it. [00:57:09] Speaker B: I know it was a big. I mean, I don't remember fully the video, but I do remember that MTV played it a lot. So I guess they're still playing Music and videos in 96. Unless MTV2 was out already. [00:57:20] Speaker A: Yeah, for all I know. [00:57:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Could have been VH1, too. [00:57:26] Speaker A: Okay, so verse one is. I've been a bad, bad girl I've been careless with a delicate man It's a sad, sad world When a girl can break a boy Just because she can. Don't you tell me to deny it I've done wrong and I want to suffer for my sins I've come to you. Cause I need guidance to be true and I just don't know where I can begin oh, what I need is a good defense Because I'm feeling like a criminal I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against. Because all. Because he's all I've ever knew of love. Because even in this song, which is super poppy, like, her words are still very good. Yeah, she's not. Not writing what she would normally write anyway. [00:58:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's definitely within. I mean, comparing it now to the. The other ones again, she's. You know what she's talking about. But she still does it in a little interesting way. You know, it's not like I broke my. You know, I broke his heart from the start kind of stuff. [00:58:19] Speaker A: Well, it's also a commentary on how a woman can use. Especially at that time, woman can use her sexuality to. To. To break a guy's heart. Like when a girl could break a boy just because she can. [00:58:29] Speaker B: Yeah, she's being honest. [00:58:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:31] Speaker B: It's like, hey, I did this. And I felt bad, though. [00:58:35] Speaker A: I always like this song. This song, you know, was always, you know, obviously this is not a rock, and there's not gonna be a lot of guitar for me to talk about on this album. But, like, as Far as the song goes, like, this is a good song. Like, even last, you know, last week, talking about to see their stuff. Like, if a song's good, the song's good. I mean, I'm gonna tell you, the song's good. This is a good song. It's much more accessible. It's much more comparative to what we've heard before, maybe, except for the first song. This is a much more accessible song for the people, you know. You're not going to get Shadow Boxer on the radio. Well, Shadow Boxer was on the radio, but it didn't do very much, I don't think. [00:59:07] Speaker B: No, I don't remember Shadow Box. I remember this one. And I mean, I like this. And I mean, again, this was an era where, hey, I like the song, gonna buy the rest of the thing, and the rest of this sucks. [00:59:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. [00:59:20] Speaker B: I mean, I could have liked this. I'm trying to think where I was headwise. And I mean, again, when Tori Amos came out, I bought that and I just devoured her first record and most of the second one. A lot of people love the third one. I'm not a massive fan, but I haven't listened to it in a while. [00:59:37] Speaker A: Let's continue on. Here we go. [00:59:39] Speaker C: Heaven help me fall the way I am Save me from these evil deeds Before I get them done I know tomorrow brings the consequences But I keep living this day like the next will never come oh, help me but don't tell me to deny it I gotta cleanse myself of all these love Till I'm good enough I got a lot to lose and I'm betting high so I'm begging you before Just tell me where to begin? What I need is a good defense. Cause I'm feeling like a criminal and I need to be redeemed as hell to pay Give me room to lay along Let me go I gotta make a play to make my last day. So what would an angel say? The devil wants to know. [01:01:21] Speaker B: There's a cool little buildup. I like the bridge. [01:01:25] Speaker A: Rooms are good. [01:01:26] Speaker B: Mm. Yeah. I mean, and the sound of the drums is obviously odd too, in this. Right. And in the sense that kind of the way they sound. They sound like the way they kind of sounded in the first song, which, again, is cool. I mean, obviously they could have just sounded like him, just kind of doing with sticks and everything. And. Yeah, it would have been a little bit heavier back beat to kind of play a little bit of the background to what's going on. [01:01:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Matt Chamberlain plays most of the drums except for track three N Track five. [01:01:53] Speaker B: Which is this one, isn't it? [01:01:54] Speaker A: No, this is four. [01:01:55] Speaker B: Oh, sorry. [01:01:58] Speaker A: He doesn't play on Shadow Boxer and he's not going to play in the next one, but he plays on 1, 2, and 4 on this side. [01:02:05] Speaker B: Okay. Makes sense. Because it said it sounded like the first one. [01:02:09] Speaker A: Makes sense, right? It's an interesting song. It's a good song. [01:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:13] Speaker A: It's not rock. I don't know how they said this was a rock song. I mean, I guess it is sort of. I mean, it is straddling that line a little bit. [01:02:22] Speaker B: I, I, Me personally, other than pop, I would, I mean, I probably would have said alternative. I don't remember if Dre was still around at the time, but I can picture them playing stuff something like this. I mean, that's as far as I would go to say straight up rock. No. And then I guess you have to see, too. I mean, if she won, what were the other songs in that category that year to see what, what she was going up against? [01:02:48] Speaker A: Would you like to know? [01:02:49] Speaker B: Yeah, if you got it. [01:02:50] Speaker A: I don't know. I can't tell. It only tells me. Best Female Vocal Rock Performance. Just says Fiona Apple. Criminal. [01:02:56] Speaker B: When did she get a 97? [01:02:58] Speaker A: Well, this is 96, but I'm assuming that Alanis Morissette was out till Jagged Little Pill was still out. I assume that this was, you know, going against something with her too, I would guess. [01:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:08] Speaker A: Supposedly this was the last video that Beavis and Butthead critiqued. [01:03:13] Speaker B: Oh, is it really? [01:03:14] Speaker A: Up until they came back in 2011, yeah. They were on the 1997 MTV special Beavis and Butthead Do Thanksgiving. So this is the last video that they actually critiqued. It's pretty funny, too. [01:03:25] Speaker B: That is funny. I mean, I've, I've seen them critique it on a separate video. I don't think I've actually seen that. I, I mean, it's funny mentioning Beavis and Butter, because I just went back and watched the other newer seasons, which I hadn't seen, and I guess I was a little bit intrepid interpolations in the beginning, like, ah, that's probably. But I mean, they're still pretty good, I'm sure. Yeah, they don't. They do full videos. So I mean, back in the day, they would do kind of snippets, and if they didn't like something, they would just really fast forward it. They would skip it. They don't do that. And they also mix in, like, streaming videos. One of the seasons does, like, Jersey Shore. [01:04:07] Speaker A: That's got to be ridiculous. [01:04:08] Speaker B: I mean, they're. It's. It's really funny. I mean, they've never stopped being funny. In my opinion. They're just as stupid and just as. [01:04:17] Speaker A: Funny as Let Me Read lyrics. Heaven help me for the way I am Save me from all these evil deeds Before I get them done I know tomorrow brings the consequence at hand But I keep living this day like the next will never come oh, help me don't tell me to deny it I've got to cleanse myself of all these lies so I'm good enough for him I've got to lose and I'm betting high so I'm begging you before it ends Just tell me where to begin and then back to the chorus. And then the bridge is. Let me know the way before this hell to pay Give me room to lay the law and let me go I've got to make a play to make my lover stay so what would an angel say? The devil wants to know. So she's comparing herself to the devil, right? I'm assuming. [01:05:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I think. [01:05:03] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good line. So what would the. What would the angel say? The devil wants to know. [01:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah, that is good. Again, you know what she's saying. But yeah, she puts it in some interesting ways. I give her credit. [01:05:12] Speaker A: All right, let's continue it. Here we go. [01:05:23] Speaker C: Spirit to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of what I need is a good defense Cause I'm feeling like a criminal and I need to be Is all I ever knew I love. [01:07:43] Speaker B: Honestly, I'm not too crazy about that end. I mean, it's okay. I mean, I think instead of kind of. And I understand, like they're trying to do something interesting with all that stuff going on in the back. I. I'd almost rather hear her kind of, I don't know, maybe go off on the piano a little bit or do something. Just because it kind of sounds now, I feel as if. What is it, two or the three or three out of the four kind of end with that thing going on. Just to me, it doesn't feel like it adds. I'm not saying it takes away from the song. I mean, obviously if you don't like it, stop it where you want to. [01:08:15] Speaker A: Well, I don't know if there was a single version of this. I don't think there was. They think this is the version Now. Australia labors are radio edit, but here it seems like the USCD 7 inch and cassette single all the same with this. With this thing. I don't remember that end part going that long, though. [01:08:29] Speaker B: No, I mean, I honestly just remember the main crux of this song. [01:08:33] Speaker A: I'd have to see the video to see if the video goes that long, too, because that's where we heard it most of the time, I think. But again, you know, they throw a little bit of the jazzy thing and they took little out notes and stuff, and it's just kind of like. It's interesting that this could be a hit. [01:08:45] Speaker B: So. By the way, she beat out Meredith Brooks for oh, wow. Annie DeFranco for shy, Abram Moore, Four Leaf Clover and Patti Smith, 1959. [01:08:56] Speaker A: The one is very surprising to me. [01:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that was a big hit, though. That was a very big hit. [01:09:01] Speaker A: I'm surprised there wasn't an Alanis Morissette song in there. Surprise. Because that thing was J. Wow. That was 94, though. [01:09:05] Speaker B: I think she won the year before. [01:09:07] Speaker A: Well, that was 94. It came out. So maybe there were still songs in the. In on the radio a couple years later, maybe. But it wasn't like in the main. In the main thing. So you want to go first? [01:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Again, I try not to compare because I'm going to be honest with you. Like, I like this one, but I like the other ones better, the jazzier ones. But, I mean, it is a good song. So, you know, I'll do Sevens across again. I mean, I can't do sixes because again, I think about two of the playlists we create. Right. And I mean, how could you not put this on a playlist on this record? I mean, you could. There's kind of like an asterisk because I do like the two ones before this better. But I mean, obviously this is. This is a good song. So. [01:09:50] Speaker A: Sevens Across, Nikki titty baby quintuple 7, zippity bippity bop. I'm gonna go eights across and I'm gonna give the reason why. I'm gonna go eights across. I think it takes the things that are not accessible in the other songs and makes them accessible here. I just think that that's a smart thing. Whatever she did here, she took some of the jazzier stuff. You know, the end part. You know, could I live without the end part? Probably. I don't think it's going to kill the song for me. [01:10:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't detract from that. You know what I mean? That wasn't even. It wasn't. Oh, if they hadn't done this. And at that point, I kind of stopped paying attention because the song kind of ended for me. But at the same time, now you realize why these songs are five minutes long. Well, yeah, the songs themselves, the main crux of the songs are kind of ending, at least I would say. What, the four, you know, four and a quarter, four and a half kind of mark maybe. Maybe even sooner. But they kind of got these codas at the end. [01:10:45] Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense, right? So let me play this. Here you go. You like that one, huh? [01:10:53] Speaker B: Oh, it's funny. I mean, it's the only Hispanic one we have, and that's the only one we have for eats. [01:10:58] Speaker A: Yes. I might have to find some other ones to do. [01:11:01] Speaker B: You should do all international, man. That'd be cool. [01:11:04] Speaker A: So at the end. Now, this is the end of the first side. Even though there's no sides on this. I don't even know. This probably wasn't ever even released on vinyl back in the day, more likely. So it's the first side ending. This is slow like honey. Don't know. I assume it's going to be in the same vein as the other stuff. I. I don't know this song at all. This is almost six minutes. I wonder how much of it's going to be like coda at the end. I'm gonna have to keep. Keep an eye out for the time. [01:11:26] Speaker B: I read this was the first song she wrote for this album. [01:11:28] Speaker A: Curious to see where it all started. Here we go. Slow like honey. [01:11:44] Speaker C: You move like honey in my dream last night yeah, Some old. Oh, fires were burning. You came near to me and you and dear to me. But you couldn't quite discern me. Does that scare you? Let you run away? But your heart will not oblige you me Like a melody, yeah. I'll haunt the world inside you. My big secret gonna win you over. Slow like honey. Heavy with me. [01:13:24] Speaker B: So I'm gonna say something, and I don't know if it'll make sense. I really like the music. I'm not crazy about the melody. I do like the way she's singing because I think this is probably the lowest I think she sung so far. And I think it said she sounds really good, but the melody is just. I don't know. I don't feel like. I feel like there's a melody that should be going to that music that isn't going there. And I say to myself, if I heard that music with, like, instrumentals or solos going over it, like sax or trumpet or whatever, I would probably like this Song. So, again, it's. It's kind of hard. It's just that melody thing, which may change because it changed in that other song. Let's see, what do you think? [01:14:05] Speaker A: It doesn't bother me. I don't hate. I don't hate the melody at all. I like her singing a lot. Again, there's a big jazz influence here. [01:14:12] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:14:13] Speaker A: And you can just. And I don't know who her vocal influences are. There's. Obviously she's copying something from somebody else. I just can't put my finger on it. And maybe it's just the style that I'm. That I'm hearing. [01:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:26] Speaker A: Again, this is definitely not a radio thing. [01:14:29] Speaker B: I mean, not top 40 anyway. [01:14:31] Speaker A: No, this is polar opposite to the last song. This doesn't have enough accessibility. [01:14:36] Speaker B: Probably not to the mainstream. I mean, the main. She's like, oh, it's jazz, pretty much. [01:14:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I'm curious to see. I'll read the. I'll read the lyrics. I'm curious to see if it changes for you from the next bunch. Because she's gonna do the two verses in a. Well, this not. She changes it up. So now it's two verses in a row, then it's one verse in a row, chorus and a bridge, then a verse, then a chorus. So you moved like honey in my dream last night. Yes. Some old fires were burning. You came near to me and you endeared to me. But you couldn't quite discern me. Does that scare you? I'll let you run away but your heart will not oblige. You'll remember me like a melody. Yeah. I'll haunt a world inside you. Haunt the world inside you. And my big secret gonna win you over. Slow like honey, heavy with mood. [01:15:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean jazz wise, she says. Billy Howling. Ella Fitzgerald. [01:15:31] Speaker A: You know what Ella Fitzgerald I hear. [01:15:33] Speaker B: Yes, I gotta kick in. I can hear that. I mean, to me, I was thinking those two, but then I'm like, I don't know. I mean, those are so on the nose. And then there's other people that kind of. I'm sick of somebody else. But she said Tori Amos was an influence. The 92 debut. Carmen Miranda, believe it or not. [01:15:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I can. I can hear some of that stuff. [01:15:49] Speaker B: Any man. [01:15:50] Speaker A: All right, let's continue. Here we go. [01:16:14] Speaker C: Yes, I'm old. Oh, fires were burning. You came near to me and you and dear to me. But you couldn't quite discern me. Does that scare you? Let you run away. But your heart will not oblige you. Me Like a melody. Yeah. I'll haunt the world inside you My big secret Gonna win you over Slow like honey Heavy with. [01:17:42] Speaker B: Yeah, not bad. I. I really like the music. I wasn't digging the. The melody so much in the beginning, but then I kind of, like, did kind of, like, leap back and did one of those, you know, let me lay back and just kind of absorb this. This isn't kind of a. It's one of those relaxing things. And, I mean, I love jazz, and so. But, yeah, I mean, the fact that she wrote this first, you can kind of obviously see where those other two songs made sense in this vein. What do you think? [01:18:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very. It's very jazzy. I like it. It's very moody. Her voice is really good on this. [01:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:22] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the melody takes a little bit to get used to. It's definitely the blueprint for the rest of the album, I'm assuming if this is the first song she wrote. So was she, like, 18 or 19 when she wrote this? [01:18:32] Speaker B: Something like that, if not younger. I mean, she talks about high school and at least high school experiences writing it. [01:18:38] Speaker A: I mean, again, this is to put an album like this out in the middle of all the stuff that was going on in the 90s, you know. But again, you only need one hit. You only need the One Criminal. Right? You have the One Criminal. And that fixes everything pretty much. [01:18:50] Speaker B: I mean, I think if you hear the first song, you're like, okay, I can kind of hear Criminal elements in that, in a sense. But, I mean, these three other songs were definitely not. Not that you don't hear jazzy elements in that, but, I mean, that's, again. [01:19:03] Speaker A: More straight up, I think, more digestible. [01:19:06] Speaker B: There's nothing mainstream pop here. Technically. Anything can be mainstream pop, depending on what people will buy in the top 40. I don't think you turn on Z100 expecting to hear this, especially for the length of it. [01:19:21] Speaker A: If you don't like this music and you bought the album because of Criminal, you might be very disappointed, you know? But you said that's kind of like what happened in the 90s, too. You'd have one song that you like, and then you go listen to the rest of them. You're like, oh, I don't particularly like these too much. Like, one song out of this whole record. [01:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't remember when I really, really started getting into jazz. So if I had. If I had gotten this based on that, because I like that song and I kind of expected more. So I don't know if I would have liked stuff like this or the other two jazzier songs. So I think it's probably better than I don't think I really was. I think it kind of started back then, but it grew after that. Probably late 90s, early 2000s, kind of. [01:20:09] Speaker A: Right. So the verse is, you moved like honey in my dream last night. Yes. Some old fires were burning. You came near to me and you were endeared to me. But you couldn't quite discern me. Does that scare you? I'll let you run away but your heart will not oblige you. You'll remember me like a melody. Yeah, I'll haunt the world inside you. And the chorus is. And my big secret gonna win you over. Slow like honey, heavy with mood. I like that line. Slow like honey, heavy with mood. Yeah, she's good. Her lyrics are good. [01:20:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, these lyrics are very jazzy, I think. Very kind of torch song. I mean, they're good, but I feel that these do fit more like maybe some of the other stuff was a little bit more off center. Where this is Sounds more like jazzy lyrics to me. [01:20:57] Speaker A: Well, and the melody is definitely that way. And the way she sings. [01:21:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, this is. Yeah, straight up, obviously. [01:21:04] Speaker A: All right, here we go. Let's continue. [01:21:13] Speaker C: I'll let you see me. I covet your regard. I'll invade your demeanor. And you yield to me like a scent in the breeze. And you won't wonder what it is about me. It's my big secret keeping you coming slow like honey. Heavy dreams can be deceiving. Like faces are two hearts they serve for sweet relieving. When fantasy and reality lie too far apart. So I stretch my myself across like a bridge and I pull you to the end. [01:23:11] Speaker B: That chord change, right, that reminded me of Criminal a little bit, actually. There's something she did there that kind of reminded me of the melody in there. [01:23:19] Speaker A: Not as accessible as the other one is. [01:23:21] Speaker B: No, I mean, it's. No, I'm just saying those. That kind of thing that she did with the. With the music and the vocal pattern. Well, yeah, I mean, listen, take from yourself. [01:23:31] Speaker A: No, but I'm saying. But she took those things together and put them. Put them into something more accessible because that's what she did. And here she's not worried about accessibility of any kind. Let me give you some words. I'll let you see me. I'll covet your regard. I'll invade your demeanor. And you'll yield to me like a scent in the breeze. And you'll wonder what it's. What it is about me. And the chorus, she changes it. It's my big secret Keeping you coming slow like honey Heavy with mood and a bunch of ass and then bridge. Those dreams can be deceiving like faces are to hearts they swerve for sweet relieving when fantasy and reality lie too far apart I'll stretch myself across like a bridge and I'll pull you to the edge. They had that little, like. They came really down, like, in that one fantasy reality part and slowed it all down. I don't know if that's a jazz staple kind of thing to do. It sounds very familiar. [01:24:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean. Yeah, because you get little accents and stuff like that. And again, I think sort of thing I'm missing, too is a little bit of some of the other, you know, Like, I would like a little solo in there somewhere. Something that breaks it up, too. I think that's one thing. That. And not that it has to be there, but I would kind of like a little bit. A little bit of some music. [01:24:45] Speaker A: Jazz, isn't it? Generally, a lot of. There's some solo stuff all over the place. General. [01:24:49] Speaker B: A lot of solo. Yes. [01:24:52] Speaker A: That's what I mean. So she's really not taking that part of it. [01:24:54] Speaker B: No, she's just taking the. But again, not that the other singers have done it, obviously, so. But I just feel like in this song, you could kind of maybe just. Kind of just break it up a little bit. [01:25:05] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, let's continue it out. Here you go. [01:25:13] Speaker C: Stand there waiting Trying to attain the end to satisfy the story Shall I release you? Must I release you? As I rise to meet my glory? But my big secret was gonna hover over your life Gonna keep you reaching When I'm gone Like yesterday When I'm high like heaven When I'm strong like music. Cause I'm slow like honey and heavy they. [01:27:11] Speaker B: It's actually my favorite ending, I think, of any of the songs. [01:27:14] Speaker A: I was going to say. It's my favorite, too. [01:27:16] Speaker B: Yeah. I do like the way that did. And a little bit of that voice. The piano kind of got louder. You know what I mean? It was like the main focus. There wasn't a lot of. Kind of, like, there was background stuff, but I felt like before some of that stuff was a little bit more distracting from what was going on. And this wasn't. [01:27:31] Speaker A: I liked it. Let me finish reading the end part, and then we can vote verse 4. And stand there waiting Trying to attain the end to satisfy the story Shall I Release you Must I release you As I rise to meet my glory but my big secret Gonna hover over your life Gonna keep you reaching When I'm gone Like yesterday When I'm high like heaven When I'm strong Like music Because I'm slow like honey and heavy with mood. Yeah, it's good. [01:27:57] Speaker B: That is a good idea like that mind. [01:27:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's. You know, for a young woman to be writing that such introspective lyrics like that, it shows you, you know, that she's very talented. So why don't you do it first? [01:28:11] Speaker B: I'll say seven on the music, seven on production. I'll say seven on the lyrics. I mean, they are good lyrics. I'm gonna say six on the arrangement. And is that. Or am I missing it? No, six on the melody. I mean, it was. Okay, so I liked it the more it went on, for sure. But, you know when, like, you feel like you should really like something and you're not really liking it and you don't specifically know why, like, you can't really put your finger on it. So, again, obviously, I didn't give it bad scores. I didn't give it whatever. Technically, it may have even gone slightly lower. I'm not gonna ding it that much. But again, you know, when something is like, oh, I should really like this, but I'm not liking it, but I can't put my finger on it. But I did like it the more I went on. There was a one part, though, that I really. That I really wasn't crazy about, where, like I said, it sounded kind of a little bit like Criminal. Like this one little change. What do you think? [01:29:11] Speaker A: I think my scores are gonna be just like yours. Seven on the lyrics, six on the melody, seven on the music. Except I'm gonna do seven on the arrangement because I do like the arrangement and seven on production. Again, this, obviously is the blueprint for the whole album. It kind of sounds this way. And if you're coming here for Criminal, you're not going to get Criminal. I don't know what's on the second side, but at least on the first side, you know, you have a couple of songs that are similar, like Sleep the Dream and Criminal, sort of in the same vein is sorta. But the other stuff is just straight. Not that. So if you came here for those two songs, I mean, I would say Shadow Boxer. [01:29:45] Speaker B: Right. Is probably the biggest bridge. [01:29:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess between the two. [01:29:50] Speaker B: Maybe. [01:29:51] Speaker A: Maybe. [01:29:51] Speaker B: I didn't necessarily think her to do something like this when I heard Criminal, but If I hear Shadow Box, I'm like, okay. Like, I think I pick up more of the jazzy elements in that and more of, like, the pop elements. Whereas this is. I mean, straight up, I think this. The. The ones that I like the most were the ones. And again, this one, I'm not sure why it didn't click as well as I thought it would. I think maybe I'm a realistic. Because again, the more I went on, the more I. Because I'm like, dude, this is stuff that you really like, but who knows? Sometimes you just can't. Like, I don't know what it is, but there's so. But yeah, I mean, the voice is good. [01:30:29] Speaker A: Are you surprised about this album, what it ended up being so far? [01:30:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought it was more. Yeah, I thought it was more like Criminal, but I told you, I never really heard. I don't remember Shadow Boxer at all. I do remember Sleep To Dream, but, I mean, that's my least favorite song as of now, I think. I think. Had I bought it for that or had anybody had gotten it for that back then? When you hear that song, you can hear tones of that and then they kind of start to fade. And then you get to Criminal. He's like, okay. And then you get to the next song, you're like, wait a second. [01:31:02] Speaker A: It is. You know, it's. It is what it is. And again, it's a. It's a ballsy kind of thing to put out during this time frame. So give her credit. So now it'll be interesting to hear what the second side does. I'm assuming we're going to have more of the same, but who knows? [01:31:15] Speaker B: Well, all the three singles are on the first side, right? [01:31:18] Speaker A: Yep. So either this is the best that she has going on and the second side's not going to be as good. I don't know. Depends how they sequence it. Right. Put the strongest up on the first side. Up front. Well, up first side, whatever. Up front. This is a CD time. So up front. And then the second half, maybe not as strong. I don't know. We'll see. [01:31:34] Speaker B: So the singles were what, Sleep To Dream, Shadow Box or Incremental? [01:31:38] Speaker A: Yep. [01:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah, but think about it. Selling Girl was more jazzy. This is way jazzy. Again, I think Shadow Boxer was. I don't think Sleep To Dream is very jazzy. I mean, not as much as something like this or Sullen Girl. And maybe that's what they did. Maybe they tested the waters with that and said, okay, well, listen, because that was the first angle Right. Shadow Boxer, they said. [01:31:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:31:58] Speaker B: So maybe they were kind of testing the waters because it was kind of a British thing. And then Criminal and Net. Sleep To Dream, or. [01:32:06] Speaker A: Yes, Criminal was the second one. That's when they hit really big. Then Sleepy Dream did pretty decent. [01:32:11] Speaker B: Yeah, but I mean, Sleep to Dream, I would say, is closer to a criminal than. Than it is slow, like honey. [01:32:18] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:32:19] Speaker B: So they were like, all right. Well, that style hit. Let's try this. Don't go into that. Jazzy. I don't. She did nothing on the jazz charts, I assume. Right. Did you look it up or. [01:32:29] Speaker A: I don't think so, no. Let's see the album itself. Trying to see where the singles are. No, I don't think so. Let's see. Shadow Box. Would they release that, too? Alternative adult pop. That's it. Really hitting the 30s, which isn't bad still. So. Still top 40. [01:32:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I can hear the alternative in. I'm going to hear it in Criminal. I mean, that's kind of what I thought it was, what I. What I expected. I mean, it goes to show, right. How people get marketed. And. [01:33:01] Speaker A: Yeah, you only need one big song. Right. To propel the album. So that's all she needed was one. And she. She wrote that on purpose to be a hit. So. All right, so next week we get to finish this up. Interesting. An album we didn't think we were gonna get. It was on there, but I never thought we would get it. [01:33:15] Speaker B: I didn't. I didn't know what's on there, so it's a big surprise to me. [01:33:19] Speaker A: Well, there's a lot of albums. It's hard to remember what's on that list. [01:33:22] Speaker B: So. Yeah, we're getting close, man. What? I see 1, 370 albums on there. [01:33:27] Speaker A: Yeah, we're up to. I can tell you right now, we're up to. [01:33:31] Speaker B: Well, I'm 1369. If that was the case right after. [01:33:33] Speaker A: This, we're up to 1370 still. [01:33:38] Speaker B: Yeah, we're. We're getting there. [01:33:40] Speaker A: Yeah. We're gonna be 1400 eventually. I haven't added stuff. I added one or two albums. I haven't added anything in a while because we have so much. [01:33:46] Speaker B: Well, I mean, stuff keeps coming out, and there's so many. I go. I mean, I go through these. Down these rabbit holes on Amazon sometimes. I mean, even yesterday, I probably listen to 10 bands that I've never had heard of before. I just. There's so much music out there. I mean, it is good about streaming. I mean, especially if you're a music fan. [01:34:07] Speaker A: Well, you get everything. [01:34:08] Speaker B: You do get to hear a lot of stuff that you couldn't hear 100%. [01:34:12] Speaker A: All right, what should you think? [01:34:14] Speaker B: Cool. So we are part of the Deep Dive Podcast network again. Like I always say, a great bunch of guys took us in right away. If you want more individualized podcasts again, Rush, Judas Priest, Tom Petty, Uriah Heap, Queen Zepp, then you name it. It's probably on there. So check them out. And mark, where can they find us. [01:34:31] Speaker A: On the Interwebs Rock Roulette pod, on all the socials, we're on Blue Sky. Like I said now, we just got on there. So check us out over there. X, Facebook, Instagram. Now we're on all the major things. And please set us as auto download on your podcast app so you get all the newest episodes. All our episodes are now being released on Tuesday. We moved from Sunday to Tuesday, so changing up gives us a little more time to edit. And just trying to change up the release time. We've been releasing on Sundays for the last two years, but we want to try release during the week. So Tuesdays is the day. And if you want to submit new bets, go to rock roulettepodcast.com and obviously there's polls over there. All the episodes are there. So go take a look. I guess next week we get to finish this up and then see what the second side brings. [01:35:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I hope it's more jazzy stuff. [01:35:21] Speaker A: Honestly, I'm sure it will be. All right, we'll see you later.