Episode 119 - Fiona Apple - Tidal - Part 2

[00:00:05] Speaker A: This is our musical reaction breakdown and commentary analysis of this song. Under fair use, we intend no copyright infringement and this is not a replacement for listening to the artist's music. The content made available on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Notwithstanding a copyright owner's rights under the Copyright Act. Section 107 of the Copyright act allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holder for purposes such as education, criticism, comment, news, reporting, teaching, scholarship and research. These so called fair uses are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. Now on to the Rock Roulette Podcast. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Rock Roulette Podcast. That's right, the Crazy ass podcast. It took over 1300 albums. Second a list, stuck them in a wheel, and typically every other week we spin the wheel. She picks a record for us and we go through a track by track and we talk about music, lyrics, production, melody and arrangement, and we rate it based on our own tastes. Again, just a bunch of friends who wanted to do a podcast that love music. Nothing fancy here. First and foremost, as always, we want to thank anybody who listens. Again, spread the word if you like what you hear. And if you don't like what you hear, drop us a note. You know, let us know what we can do better or tell us to shut up. You know, we can. We can't do that, but maybe we can. We can do something to accommodate you, but again, we're just having fun, so. And tonight we are a duo. We have Mark. Oh, hi, Mark. [00:02:02] Speaker C: What's up, guys? [00:02:03] Speaker B: And I'm Sara. So last week we got Title by Fiona Apple, her debut album. Kind of an odd pick somewhat. I mean, definitely, obviously in that 90s kind of thing, but not necessarily a rock album. Massive hit she had with Criminal. And we came to discover that basically there's two songs like Criminal and I believe the intro track that kind of sounded like that. But the other songs were all pretty, kind of like torchy, slow, jazzy kind of things. And the way she sings is not necessarily the same as Criminal. It's a little bit more drawn out. You know, definitely good voice, different type of music than people may have been expecting when they bought it, if they bought it based on Criminal. What do you think, Mark? [00:02:47] Speaker C: Yeah, if you bought that based on Criminal, you may not be very happy. I mean, in general, I think her lyrics are good. You know, you have to be into that. I'm not. I'm not super into this as far as that, but I Appreciate her. Like, her voice is super unique. In some ways it is of the time. In some ways it's not of the time. Does that make sense? [00:03:03] Speaker B: Yep. I mean, obviously that style of music has gone on ever since it began. But again, if you think about what was played on the radio, as far as the hits, it was criminal and the other one, and these other songs were not played. I don't think they wanted to push up this angle of the record because maybe they thought if people hear this, they may not like it, it may not appeal to kind of like the pop crowd. I appreciate that stuff a little bit more than the other stuff I'm hearing. So I am pretty curious about what's going to happen on the second side. Obviously, before we get to that, we have our new Bets section, which again, is a little baby wheel, as we call it here, where we've picked songs that have come out very recently. And some of it is kind of in the wheelhouse and some of it isn't. Obviously we've gotten some. Some weirder stuff and then we've gotten some straight up metal stuff. So it's fun. I mean, again, I hope you guys enjoy this. And as I mentioned before, we did get a contribution that we put into the Wheel. So obviously if we bring it up, we'll listen to it and be honest about it. So I look forward to this because I've added some of this stuff to my playlist. So what do you think, Mark? Where are we going today with this? [00:04:09] Speaker C: Well, no, but we have to do this first. [00:04:12] Speaker D: In a world where new music is not easy to find. Welcome to New Bets. [00:04:27] Speaker C: Well, I think it's your turn, right? [00:04:28] Speaker B: Ah, yeah. Spin, spin, spin, spin. I think it's more fun this way anyway. [00:04:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the randomness is just what it is. Are you ready? Here it goes. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Oh, BlackBerry smoke hammer and the nail. So I'm assuming this is from a 2024 album, which I think we kind of knew that they had something out this year. [00:05:01] Speaker C: Yeah, this is new. I think so. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I wonder if it's more on the countryside or the rock side or the combo side of what's. Of the sound. [00:05:09] Speaker C: Well, we didn't know about the last album. Right. So we didn't really know how that was working. So I'm curious to see what this turns out to be. [00:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah, me too. [00:05:17] Speaker C: Let me pull this up. Here we go. This is. This is interesting. I. I like some of the other stuff before. Curious to see if this is more of a rock thing or a country thing. [00:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's see. [00:05:26] Speaker C: Here we go. So this is BlackBerry smoke. Hammer and the nail. [00:05:37] Speaker E: Mama told me Daddy ran away with the circus I guess it must have been the greatest show on earth. Preacher told me hell's full of them that deserve it. Good news and bad sign. Which one you want first? Sometimes you're the heaven Sometimes you're the male like my daddy before me this is where the apple fail Beating the eyes covered up roses Ain't my story to tell the whole world swings the hammer and I'm the n Trouble seem to find me like it ain't even trying Eye in the sky got my name in a file Cop said, son, what the hell are you thinking? Sheriff said, boy, you're gonna wait for a while Sometimes you're the hamm Sometimes you're the male like my daddy before me this is where the apple fails Beating the eyes, coming up roses Ain't my story to tell the whole world swings a hammer and I'm the nail Sometimes you're the helmet Sometimes you're the N Like my daddy before me this is where the apple fell for beating the eyes and coming off roses Ain't my story to tell the whole world swings the hammer and I'm the N. [00:08:20] Speaker B: So that was a little bit a mix, I would say. [00:08:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Did you like it better than the other stuff? [00:08:27] Speaker B: It was okay. It's not bad. You know what I mean? It's. It's catchy. And I mean, I like. I like the lyric at the end. The. The last line is funny. Whether he says, the whole world's a hammer and I'm a nail. I thought that was actually pretty funny. That's pretty clever. [00:08:43] Speaker C: I think the guitar solo was better. I think. [00:08:47] Speaker B: I don't know yet. I think. I think I'd give it another listen. I didn't dislike it. I mean, I think it was upbeat and catchy. How long was this? Pretty short, right? [00:08:55] Speaker C: Three minutes. [00:08:56] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, what do you think overall? [00:08:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's a mix. I think the guitar playing in the solo, I think is. Was better than the stuff that was on the other record. That was good. I'm glad there was the solo in it because the Lord knows that this out. This album. We're listening to it now. I'm not going to get any guitar stuff pretty much at all. So. Yeah, I liked it. I think it was bad. I don't know if it's exactly in the same vein as the other one. I think the other one was more country than that. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah. I think this Is more of a bridge. [00:09:19] Speaker C: This is more what I was expecting, I think. [00:09:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, not bad. Be curious again to hear if they. If they come up, see what else they have. So. [00:09:27] Speaker C: Yeah, so it's good. All right, cool. Let's play this. [00:09:31] Speaker D: In a world where new music is not easy to find. Welcome to new bets. [00:09:46] Speaker B: So I am ready to see what's going on on side two of title. [00:09:50] Speaker C: Okay, well, this is the first song. This is called the first taste. Let's see. Here we go. [00:10:06] Speaker D: Waiting for the black to replace my bl. I do not struggle in your way because it was my aim to get caught but daddy long legs I feel that I'm finally growing weary of waiting to be consumed by you Give me up curse days Let it begin Heaven cannot wait forever darling just start the chase I'll let you win but you must make the end. [00:11:08] Speaker B: Got a little Sade feeling to that. [00:11:12] Speaker C: I feel I was gonna say it does sound like that. Yeah. I wasn't expecting that beat. Tell you the truth, I'm liking. [00:11:20] Speaker B: I'm not 100 on board, but I'm not disliking it. I think I. It could draw on me as the song progresses. I do like the beat, though. Like you said, I wasn't expecting that. I was either expecting no beat, honestly speaking, or just kind of again, like maybe some slow. Some slow brushes on. So I do kind of like that. She went. That I think I want again. We may have said some of this in the first. A little bit more of a melody. Going on a stronger melody. I think we'll see. [00:11:47] Speaker C: All I can say is that I think it's hard to make a melody with the words that she uses. I'm going to read you the words, and you'd be like, it's going to be hard to pull a melody out of this. That's maybe why. Okay, first one is I lie in an early bed Thinking late thoughts Waiting for the black to replace my blue I do not struggle in your web because it was my aim to get caught but daddy long lids I feel that I'm finally growing weary of waiting to be consumed by you Then the chorus is. Give me the first taste Let it begin Heaven cannot wait forever darling just start the chase I'll let you win but you must make the endeavor forever. Endeavor. You don't hear forever and endeavor rhymed very much. [00:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, she's good with the. You know, it's. You don't sit there wondering what she's singing about. You know what she's singing about. But I think she still delivers it in. In an interesting way. Yeah, I mean, overall, her lyrics are pretty decent. [00:12:46] Speaker C: Yeah, her lyrics are. Her lyrics are good. What was she saying? She was 19 when this came out. So she was younger than this when she was writing these lyrics? [00:12:53] Speaker B: I assume so, yeah. [00:12:54] Speaker C: So it's crazy. Let's continue. Here we. [00:13:09] Speaker D: I doubt. Your breezes fill my skin with sudden waves. You're hungry Unreal on things we have not seen. Food is not heavy as empty not nearly my love not nearly my love not nearly Give me the first taste Let it begin Heaven cannot wait forever Gonna just start the chase I'll let you win but you must make the ending the first days Let it begin Heaven cannot wait forever Stop the chase I let you win but you must make the endeavor. Ra. [00:16:29] Speaker B: That was interesting. I. I heard some guitar in there, man. [00:16:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. I was going to say, yeah, it's pretty interesting. [00:16:38] Speaker B: A lot going on. She does have this thing, though. I do notice it seems that as the song fades out, there's a lot going on. Right. It seems that the song. I mean, in this case, there seems to be some stuff going on no matter what. One staple seems that, as is, her songs end and she's not. She stops singing. There's a lot of music at the end of all the songs. She doesn't really stop singing, and the song stops and it starts building up on all these weird instrumentations that we had mentioned last time. And sometimes it's cool. I mean, I. I like this one. I liked the way this one faded out with all this stuff going on. [00:17:16] Speaker C: So Phil could be a shorter song, though. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's the thing. I mean, honestly, without these outros that she does with the music, this would. It would shave easily a minute, if not more off of every one of these songs, I think. So this is just a staple. [00:17:31] Speaker C: It's what she does. [00:17:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, even Criminal had it, right. I'm pretty sure Criminal had it on a long outro. [00:17:37] Speaker C: Yeah, she does the scatty kind of thing at the end. [00:17:40] Speaker B: Jazz and scat go together, I guess. [00:17:43] Speaker C: Okay, so verse two is. Oh, your love give me a heart contusion Adagio breezes fill my skin with sudden red. Your hungry flirt borders intrusion and I'm building memories on the things we have not said. And there was that little weird breakdown thing. Full is not heavy, is empty. Not nearly my love, not nearly my love, not. Which she did, I guess. She did the low and then she did the high part that was interesting. And then basically it's just the chorus out for the rest of the song. You're right. It was at least a minute, if not longer, of just instrumentation and just her scatting over the end of it. So it could have been a three minute song, but it was 4:47. It was different. I wasn't expecting the beat and I wasn't expecting this. I like the chorus. I guess I'm going to go first. I like the chorus melody. I wasn't as intrigued with the verse melody and she has a really unique voice and when she sings, she emphasizes things in weird ways. So sometimes it's not as digestible. Like if you can't handle that. I can see how people coming in to Criminal then coming to this and going, what the hell this about. So I'm gonna say lyrics. I like the. I think the lyrics are good. I'm gonna get lyrics a seven. I'm gonna give the melody a six. Just because I'm not too thrilled about the verse melody. Musicianship was good 7. Arrangement was good 7. And production, I'm gonna say 8 because there was lots of stuff going on there. I. I'm really surprised they were able to mix all that stuff around and not get as jumbled as it could have been. There was tons of stuff happening. So yeah, it was. It was different. I appreciate that. It wasn't the same chor song thing again. What do you think? [00:19:13] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty similar. Yeah, I'll say seven on the lyrics. I mean, again, I think she takes simple things and makes them interesting in the way she says them. I'm gonna say six on the melody as well. I didn't like the melodies in all parts, actually. I think I like the verse less the second time I heard it as opposed to the first time, so. But again, it wasn't. It wasn't terrible. I wasn't sitting here saying. Yeah, I mean, music was. Was interesting. I'm trying to think I'm just gonna go straight sevens on the other ones. I think I'll do that then go straight seven. So seven, six, seven, seven, seven. I mean, it was. It was interesting. Like you said. I didn't think the beat was gonna go there and I liked it. It did. I mean, it's an interesting song, I think. And for that alone, one that probably deserves good scores. [00:19:58] Speaker C: I do think that she did sing the second verse a little bit different. The way she sang it. I don't think the. For the melody was different, but she just sang it. She sang this song a little stranger because her voice is superior. Do you like her voice? I. I think this is like the kind of voice you like, right? [00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I do. I definitely like her voice. It's kind of the range and the. Again, being a jazz fan and some jazz singers, not only female, but male, but. But even like the drawn out kind of things and kind of feel that she's thinking about each line, whether or not you like the way it's delivered. There's almost thought behind the delivery of every line. [00:20:33] Speaker C: You need to pull out your thesaurus when you listen to her lyrics and your dictionary while you're at it. It was interesting. Now I'm curious to see what she does. She goes back to the other thing again. I don't know. This is Never is a promise. This is 555. So is it going to be like two minutes of outro? Like, I'm curious. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Probably. Apparently this was one of the songs that Fiona included in her first demo tape, which was sent to Andrew Slater, the executive producer of Sony Music. He got her immediately signed and started working on an album. So there's two unreleased, He Takes a Taxi and Not One of those Times, which remain unreleased. [00:21:10] Speaker C: I'm curious not to hear that this is what got her signed. I'm curious to see what he heard in this. To see, to say. We're signing you right away. Right, here we go. So this is never is a promise. [00:21:48] Speaker D: Its colors, richness won't appear within your view. I never glow the way that you glow. Your presence dominates the judgments made on you. But as, as the scenery grows, I see in different lights. The shades and shadows undulate in my perception. My feelings while I'm stretched I see from greater heights. I understand why I'm still doing dimension to you. You say you understand but you don't understand. You say you never give up. See eye to eye but never is a problem promise and you can't afford to lie. [00:23:18] Speaker B: So this reminds you a little bit more of the Tori Amos style. I mean, I can picture her singing something like this. So where it's really ethereal, you know what I mean? [00:23:39] Speaker C: When did Tori Amos come out for how much before this? [00:23:44] Speaker B: I think it was earlier. In the 90s is when little earthquakes came out. That was the first fall, like 92. [00:23:52] Speaker C: All right, so if she wrote this when she was 16 now, it could have been in this time frame. Right. She's 19 here. It could, you know, three years prior is what, 93. So that would make sense if this was a. If this is an influence on her. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Or maybe too kind of again, taking a maybe record standpoint where saying, hey, this other Tori Amos did pretty well because she released her second album in 94, which is pretty similar to the first one. Overall, I mean, there's some similarities. I mean this is to me what sounded the most like something she would do overall. But again, I mean, I give her credit. I think it's complicated. It's. [00:24:37] Speaker C: Yeah, it's definitely not standard. I mean, I guess he likes the way other artists of this genre do this stuff. He. I'm sure he heard a 16 year old do this. I went, okay, we need to. Or 17. Whatever she was when she did this. I don't know, 18. I don't know when, when he signed her, whenever that was. [00:24:51] Speaker B: I mean there's, there's definitely talent there. [00:24:53] Speaker C: I'm not too sure I like the melody, you know, it's definitely different. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a, this is a. [00:24:58] Speaker C: Song like you have to sit here and listen to like, like this doesn't feel like a song you just put on in the background and it's just there. You need to pay attention. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Oh, well, I think that's it, right? I think it's, it's, it's either or. You either sit and pay attention to what's going on or you leave it in the background and you just kind of let it flow. I don't think you're gonna get the effect of it if you do it that way. You know what I mean? So you either say, listen, I'm gonna pay attention to what's going on, or I'm just not gonna pay attention at all because I'm not gonna be able to pick up on what's going on. [00:25:26] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a lot going on here. Let me read you lyrics. So verse one is, you'll never see the courage. I know its colors. Richness won't appear within your view. I'll never glow the way that you glow. Your presence dominates the judgments made on you. And again, suppose this is pre chorus, I guess. But as the scenery grows, I see in different lights. The shades and shadows undulate in my perception. My feelings swell and stretch. I see from greater heights. I understand that I'm still too proud to mention to you what I'm still too proud to mention to you. And choruses, you'll say you understand, but you don't understand. You'll say you'll never give up. Seeing eye to eye. But never is a promise and you can't afford to lie. I mean it's, I mean this. She was 16 when she wrote this. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:15] Speaker C: These are very grown up lyrics. This is not typical 16 year old lyrics. Like, take any pop person at 16, like there's nothing like this in there. If they're even writing their own lyrics. And even if they do, okay, Debbie Gibson was like 16, right? Like, her lyrics weren't like this. I mean, she was more. Way more pop. You know what I mean? Just, this is super duper adult lyrics. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, obviously this is a girl too, who comes with massive hardship in her life. [00:26:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:41] Speaker B: When you start. When you start writing from dark places, it changes the lyrics. And I think sometimes it gives them nothing. I mean, not only more force, but you try to paint pain in a certain way and it can be poetic, it could be headon. I mean, again, in her things, you. You always kind of know what's going on. But she does it in interesting ways. Yeah, I mean, her lyrics overall, definitely very good. [00:27:03] Speaker C: You're not going to mistake her voice for anyone else. That's a good thing too. All righty, let's continue. Here we go. [00:27:21] Speaker D: You never touch these things that I hold the skin of my emotions lies beneath my own you'll never fear you feel the heat of this soul My fever burns me deeper than I've ever. [00:27:51] Speaker E: Shown. [00:27:55] Speaker D: To you you say don't feel your dreams it's easier than it seems you say you never let me fall from hopes so high but never is a promise and you can't afford to. [00:28:20] Speaker E: Lie to. [00:28:41] Speaker D: You never live this life that I live I'll never live the life that wakes me in the night you'll never hear the message I give you say it looks as though I might give up this fight. But as the scene regrows I see in different lights the shades and shadows underlay in my perception my feelings swell and stretch I see from greater height I realize what I am now two dimension you say you understand you never understand I say I never wake up knowing how. Aw. [00:30:07] Speaker E: I don't know what to believe in. [00:30:11] Speaker D: You don't know who I am you say I need a piecing when I start to cry but never is a promise and I never need felt. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Actually, all song, nothing big going at the end. [00:31:04] Speaker C: Yeah, that doesn't happen very often with her. [00:31:06] Speaker B: No. At least not that I remember. [00:31:08] Speaker C: There's so many lyrics here. I'm gonna have to read all these lyrics. All her choruses are different. Like, she doesn't repeat a lot. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:31:16] Speaker C: No, I'm just saying, I mean, that's not normal either. I mean, it's nice to change things up a little bit. But she, in this song, she basically is going all out and changing everything everywhere. Let me go through this. You ready? Here we go. So verse two is. You'll never touch these things that I hold. The skin of my emotions lies beneath my own. You'll never feel the heat of this soul. My fever burns me deeper than I've ever shown to you. And this chorus is. You'll say don't fear your dreams. It's easier than it seems. You'll say you'd never let me fall from hope so high. But never ever it was a promise and you can't afford to lie. Verse 3. You'll never live this life that I live. I'll never live the life that makes me in the night. That wakes me in the night. You'll never hear the message I give. You'll say it looks as though I might give up this fight. Pre chorus. Which is weird too because now she did a pre chorus here, but she didn't do it in the last one. It's a very strange arrangement but. As the scenery grows I see in different lights. The shades and shadows undulate in my perception. My feelings swell and stretch. I see from greater heights. I realize what I am now too smart to mention to you. And then last chorus is. You'll say you understand. You'll never understand. I'll say I'll never wake up knowing how or why. I don't know what to believe in. You don't know who I am. You'll say I need appeasing when I start to cry. But I. But never is a promise and I'll never need to lie. So she turned it on herself at the end. I think it's a lot of words, man. [00:32:59] Speaker B: Well, I mean again she kind of took it to the end this time. So she needed a lot of words. [00:33:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess so. I guess you should go for us. Go ahead. [00:33:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean. Lyrics. I'll say seven again. I mean they're pretty deep. I mean I think this could be the kind of song that I may like upon more listens. But right now it's kind of a little bit all over the place. Even I think the chorus really seems to be pretty. Pretty set as opposed to kind of the other things kind of. It's a little bit hard to judge. I'll say seven on production. I'll skip to the end. So I'll say that music I'll say a six for now arrangement. I'm gonna say six because I mean it is creative and I do Think that it is a song that I could like more. I didn't dislike it, but I think I would like it better upon more listens, I believe. I don't think it would go down, you know, I'm gonna say five on Melody for now. I'm gonna ding it a little bit there here and now. And it's not that. Oh, it's always complicated. You don't get it now. I mean, it's not true because I mean, it does remind me of other stuff I've listened to here and now. And you know, as late as it is, that's where I'm standing now. But again, who knows, maybe in a future episode after having listened to it again, like, oh, you know, this, it's this again. And you know, just. Everything really just clicked. So what do you think? [00:34:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that it's a hard song to listen to. It's just, it's all. It's very complicated. I don't think that, you know, the average person listening to Criminal is going to go and listen to this and go, this is what I like. Or they might. I just think, you know, if you like Criminal, you're not going to like this as much. For lyrics, I'm going to say seven melody. I'm going to ding it to five because I think that it's a little all over the place. Even though that's probably what she's going for, but it makes it harder to, to listen to. And then maybe sevens on the rest. [00:34:51] Speaker B: I'll revisit this because there's a. There's a lot of good stuff going on. And again, it does remind me of, of some other stuff that I, that I do like. I'm just saying, as of right now, the first sitting, kind of absorbing it here, I don't think I'm properly, properly absorbing the song. Then again, I could be wrong. I mean, I may listen to it again and be like, well, you know what? I. She don't like it as much or, you know, I like it the same. So we'll see. But I mean, listen, I give her credit. I mean it's, it's a well written song for what it is, without a doubt. [00:35:21] Speaker C: Oh, it's definitely well written. I could see why that he wanted to sign her when he heard this since she was 16. Right. Because it's very complicated. [00:35:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I give her credit. [00:35:27] Speaker C: It's not an easy listen, but her piano playing is really good. [00:35:30] Speaker B: The orchestration behind it is good. [00:35:33] Speaker C: Yeah, everything's good. I don't hate it. [00:35:35] Speaker B: No, not at all, definitely. I mean, that's what I'm saying. I mean, to me, this probably is a song you really need to listen to, right. Beginning to end, because then you'll catch that flow better than, you know, we have to break it up here. If you do it straight through, it'll probably sink in better. I think it's just one of those songs. [00:35:49] Speaker C: I agree. All right, so the next song is the child is gone. [00:36:16] Speaker D: Darling give me your absence tonight Take the shade from the canvas and leave me the way Let me think in the silence Len. That echoes inside and don't bother leaving the light on Cuz I suddenly feel like a different person from the roots of my soul Come a gender co and I ran my hand o Str A vacancy that just did not belong A child is gone. [00:37:34] Speaker B: So I would say this is the closest to criminal. Melody is a little bit similar. I think it's kind of like a slower version of it. And I'm going to be honest, my favorite part is that that little music bit that goes on after the chorus. And again, not that. Not that the rest of it is bad or anything, but I'm just. I like that little part best. [00:37:52] Speaker C: I think that it's definitely more accessible. Surprised it wasn't a single of some sort because I don't think it was. Because the melodies are much better. They're easier to digest compared to the last song, which wasn't as easy to digest. [00:38:06] Speaker B: That wasn't a single though, right? [00:38:08] Speaker C: No, I don't think the other ones. Yeah, there was nothing on the second side that's single. It was only three singles, so we already went through all three of them. Okay, so first one is Darling, give me your absence tonight Take the shade from the canvas and leave me the white. Let me sink in the silence that echoes inside and don't bother leaving the light on pre chorus because I suddenly feel like a different person. From the roots of my soul come a gentle coercion I ran my hand over the strange inversion A vacancy that just did not belong the child is gone so a loss of innocence kind of thing, having to deal with that. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's what I think. So. [00:38:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, her themes are very adult. I mean, not that she's not an adult, but, you know, I'm. Obviously Some of this was written when she was younger too. [00:38:55] Speaker B: Yeah, Well, I mean, listen, at 19, you're still not. You know what I mean? You're an adult. Technically you're called an adult, but you still got a ways to go yeah. You know what I mean. [00:39:04] Speaker C: I'm not sure I'm an adult now. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Me neither. Oh, please. I feel more. Less like an adult now, I think, than when I was hurrying, so. [00:39:13] Speaker C: Well, you know what it was. You wanted to be an adult when you were her age. Now you don't care about that anymore. You'd like. I'd like to go back. [00:39:20] Speaker B: I don't know if I wanted to be an adult then, though. See, I don't think that's it. I just think I just haven't matured. I think that's what it is. [00:39:30] Speaker C: That's my problem. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know if I'm there yet. You may still have a year on me because I might still be less than that sometimes. I definitely feel less than that. And I have opinions that when your. [00:39:43] Speaker C: Kids go, what's wrong with you? [00:39:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:45] Speaker C: Let's continue. Here we go. [00:39:48] Speaker D: Honey, help me out of business. I'm a stranger to myself. Don't reach for me I'm too far away I don't wanna talk. Cause there's nothing left to say. So, my darling, give me your absence tonight. Take all of your sympathy and be right. Cause there's no kind of love that could make this all right. I'm trying to find a place I belong. And I suddenly feel like a different person from the roots of my soul. Oh, come. A gentle coercion And I ran my hands o'er. A strange inversion as the darkness turned into the dawn. The child is gone. The child is gone. [00:42:17] Speaker C: Again. [00:42:17] Speaker B: It kind of felt like a slower version of Criminal. This one didn't really grab me, honestly. Even though it's. It's. It's in a style that I like. What do you think? Without giving scores? [00:42:33] Speaker C: No, I like. I like it, actually. I think, again, it's. It's a little more. It's a little more accessible. So I like the melody. I think she's. This is definitely more leaning towards something that they could have released, you know what I mean? As opposed to some of the other stuff. But let me read words before we even talk about anything else. So now this other part here is supposedly a bridge. I don't know. That's what it says it is. I don't know if that's what it is. It's definitely not a verse. So it goes, Honey, help me out of this mess. I'm a stranger to myself. But don't reach for me I'm too far away. I don't want to talk because there's nothing left to say Now Verse. So my darling give me your absence tonight Take all of your sympathy and leave it outside because there's no kind of loving that can make this all right I'm trying to find a place I belong and then pre chorus again. And I suddenly feel like a different person from the roots of my soul come a gentle coercion and I ran my hands over the strange inversion as the darkness turns into dawn the child is gone the child was gone so I think the lyrics are still really good. Yeah, I do enjoy this. I mean. And there was some weird little guitar thing I heard. [00:43:42] Speaker B: Oh, see, I didn't even pick up on that. [00:43:45] Speaker C: Yeah, it was a little guitar thing in the back. Not very much. I mean, you'd have to be listening for it. I think I'm going to do sevens across on just because I think that it's a decent song and it could be a single. It's something she could release. It's not as in your head as some of the other stuff is, maybe. I don't know. So I think that's what I'm gonna do. So that means I need to play one of these things. Then what am I gonna do? I don't know. I'll do this one. [00:44:07] Speaker B: It's groovy, man. It's quintuple. [00:44:09] Speaker C: Seven Nikki titty, baby. Groovy, man. What do you think? [00:44:13] Speaker B: I like how they all say Nikki titty baby. That's definitely the unifying factor of all these stars. They get shout out every show no matter what. I don't know. This one just really wasn't grabbing me. I'm gonna say a six on the lyrics. They're not. Obviously they're not bad. I don't think there is a seven like some of the other ones were. I mean, I don't want to ding it. The production is. Was good. I'll say seven on production. I mean, I don't think there's really been a badly produced song on here for. For what it is. Oh, melody. I'm gonna say a five again in the melody again. I just. This could be. Again, this could be another song that kind of grabs me at a different time depending on what it is. Especially considering, again, it's. It's in a style that I typically would like, but I don't know. For me, there was something missing there, I guess. Six on the music and the six on the arrangement. I'm kind of mid for me. [00:45:04] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm surprised. [00:45:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm surprised. I'm going to be honest. I'm surprised. Too. I am. I was like, that should be liking this. But it's just. It just isn't grabbing me for some reason. [00:45:14] Speaker C: Maybe your expectations are too high now. [00:45:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:17] Speaker C: Maybe because the other stuff is much more adventurous. It doesn't remind me of Criminal. [00:45:23] Speaker B: It reminded me a little bit of it, I think. I mean, I know I kept saying it and maybe I'm way off and people like, I shut the fuck, you're wrong. Could be. But it's. To me, it was almost like a slower companion piece to that melody. I feel. [00:45:35] Speaker C: Alrighty. Well, the next one is Pale September. I like the name. I like Pale September. It's a good name. [00:45:41] Speaker B: Me too. [00:45:42] Speaker C: And this is about a little over five. The next two songs are a little over five. So I wonder if she's gonna sing it out, like the last five minute one. Or is this gonna be more of, you know, sing and then stop and then instrumental at the end. Yeah, I don't know. I guess it depends on what style she does. Right. Because this side is definitely different. Less of the jazzy stuff on this side. [00:46:01] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess it depends how many lyrics there are as well. Right. Because that other song went to the end. But like you said, there was definitely a lot of lyrics. [00:46:08] Speaker C: Yeah, well, the last song had a little bit of the same. Same. But she changed. Like, she would change the last two lines. Like she get. She did the first two lines the same, then the last changed. So there was really no, like, one whole section that was duplicated. But she did take pieces from pre chorus and chorus and just change some other stuff up, which I appreciate, actually. [00:46:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:27] Speaker C: All right, so here we go. Pale September. [00:46:48] Speaker D: Pale September I wore the time like a dress that year the autumn day swung soft around me like cotton on my skin but as the embers of the summer Lost their breath and disappeared My heart went cold and all their hollow rhythms Resounded from within but then he rose brilliant as the moon and fall and sank in the burrows of my K. [00:47:52] Speaker E: My feet. [00:47:56] Speaker B: And. [00:47:56] Speaker D: My winter G. I'm singing to sleep. [00:48:15] Speaker B: So I like the chorus. I'm not crazy about the verse or that intro. Like, clearly it's kind of along the same lines. I don't know. I mean, I really like the chorus. [00:48:25] Speaker C: I'm the opposite. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Oh, really? Yeah. [00:48:28] Speaker C: I'm really not digging the chorus too much, but I like the verse. I like some of the things that she says and how she puts. Like times of year is like clothes. That's, like, interesting to me. I don't know. I shouldn't say. I Like the verse? I like the first four. The first four lines of the verse. In the last two lines, she loses me a little bit. Well, let me read it and then we can talk a little more about that. So. Hail September, I wore the time like a dress that year. The autumn days swung soft around me like cotton on my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their breath and disappeared, My heart went cold and only hollow rhythms resounded from within. But then he rose brilliant as the moon in full and sank in the burrows of my keep. Chorus. And all my armor falling down in a pile at my feet. And my winter giving way to warm as I'm singing him to sleep. I mean, I like the words. I mean, maybe it'll catch me a little bit more. Right now, my initial feeling is I like the verse better than the chorus, but that could change. So this is a long song, so I don't. There's not a lot of words here, so I think there's got to be a lot of instrumental at the end, probably. [00:49:36] Speaker B: Unless she does something in the middle, maybe. So it kind of differentiate it, maybe. [00:49:40] Speaker C: Let's continue. Here we go. [00:50:04] Speaker D: Just as a water lily gentle on the surface of his thoughts Is bad. It floats and weighed down by passion or intensity. Yet on a way of the depth upon which it goes. And it finds a home in me for what misfortune sows. He knows my touch will reap and hold too long. Cause I'm sa to sleep. Oh, I fallen down in a p. And my wife sa. [00:53:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so I guess she. She stretched out the lyrics. Yeah, the way she. The arrangement of everything. So it wasn't a lot of music, honestly. [00:53:49] Speaker C: There's a little in between. Middle part, but not very much. [00:53:54] Speaker B: Yeah, but not compared to some of the outros that have been just straight up minute, minute and a half of just music. So. [00:54:01] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay, let me read verse two. He goes along just as the water lily gentle on the surface of his thoughts. His body floats unweighed down by passion or intensity. Yet unaware of the depth upon which he coasts. And he finds a home in me for what Mishworshan shows. He knows my touch will reap. And basically the chorus is the. Just repeats the chorus out. She doesn't really make much changes. Of course, you know, the chorus isn't as bad as I thought. It does grow on you a little bit. [00:54:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that's my favorite part. And I. I mean, the fact that the end music was kind of built around the chorus. I just. I wasn't really Feeling the verses and that main line on the piano. I didn't like either. [00:54:42] Speaker C: I don't hear any music. This is the fine thing. I'm going to say this later, too. It's so vocal forward. It's all about her singing to me, and everything else is superfluous. It could be anything going on. It wouldn't really matter. Why don't you go first? [00:54:54] Speaker B: So I'll say six on the lyrics. Music, I don't know. I guess I'll say six because I like the chorus and it ends on the chorus. And the stuff built around the chorus is there. Like I said, I don't like the main line. I didn't really like the verse. So you know what I'm going to say. See, melody is tough because what do you do when you're one, when you're like half and half? Did you. Five out of ten? Because it's half. I'll say five on the melody. Arrangement is fine. I'll say six on arrangement. I mean, it's pretty. The arrangement is pretty simple. In this one production, I'm going to say is seven again. I mean, again, for what these songs are, I think they're perfectly produced. I mean, they do remind me of. There's a singer, Liz Wright, too, came out in the early 2000s, who kind of does a style like this. It reminds me of that, too. It's very piano forward. And what do you think? [00:55:34] Speaker C: I think I'm doing the same thing. Six in the melody. I mean, five on the melody, six in the lyrics and six. Six on the arrangement and musicianship and production. I'll do a seven. I think that's kind of fair. The melody's rough. [00:55:43] Speaker B: I mean, again, this stuff is in my. Not only. But I mean, it's definitely one of the. The genres that I like. And I've mentioned this maybe not every podcast, but at least every other podcast where sometimes when you listen to a song broken up like this, you. You don't get the full effect. You know what I mean? It's easier for us to say, well, I don't like the melody in the verse. I like it in the chorus, because you really are breaking up everything. And sometimes a song like this and even that other one, if you don't listen to it straight through, it doesn't have. And listen. Not to say that if you listen to it straight through, you're gonna like it any better or worse, but you're like, okay, it kind of sinks in better. I think maybe some of the lower scores are really. Because of that. I mean, I think she's a. You know, she's a good songwriter. Obviously, her lyrics are good. I like the style of music like this, and I apologize for some of the low, lower scores. But I'm saying I think that may have something to do with it. Maybe if I go back and listen to this, I say, hey, Mark, guess what? I'm gonna give it the same scores. Like, all right, then. It had nothing to do with it. [00:56:43] Speaker C: Yeah, it's hard. I mean, I try to take it from my first, like, initial thing on me and whether it come, you know, whether I like it or don't like it right from then, but, you know, I do a degree that you could listen to it over and over and maybe like it more. Yeah, we can't. We don't have that. We don't have the luxury here. So whatever. The first thing that pops in. [00:56:57] Speaker B: Yeah, there was. I forgot which Metallica album it was one of the more recent ones where I heard a single and then I heard a little bit of another one. Like. Yeah. But then I actually listened to it straight through on a commute, and it just flowed in a way that I liked the album. I don't remember which one it was. I'm gonna be honest. I definitely wasn't with the Fuel. So it's either. I mean, we did. Do we. We did Death Magnetic right, On. On the podcast, or. No, we did the other one. [00:57:21] Speaker C: So hardwired to destruct. Right. [00:57:23] Speaker B: Okay. It may have been. Is the one we did. Right? [00:57:25] Speaker C: Yes. [00:57:26] Speaker B: So it could have been. It may have been Death Magnetic. Where individually, it didn't. Whatever I'd heard. But then flowing, it seemed to flow, and I liked it better that way. [00:57:35] Speaker C: No, never know. All right, so this is the final track on the album. This is called Carry It. [00:57:49] Speaker D: Won't do no good to who knows what's gone is gone and you can't bring it back around Won't do no good to hold no search light you can't illuminate what time is anchored down I have gone away I have gone away I've gone away. [00:58:28] Speaker B: I think I hear a little that Criminal element in here, too, personally. Even after she stops singing, there's like. I feel like I kind of hear it just fine. I mean, listen, if it sounds like one of her songs, I hear a. [00:58:40] Speaker C: Little more than this. Maybe because it beats a little faster. [00:58:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:42] Speaker C: If you listen to Criminal, it's definitely not the same. [00:58:45] Speaker B: No, no, no. But I hear the elements of it in this bit. It's. It's not done. I mean, obviously, this is guitar. The drums are not as forward. It's just kind of the brushes. A little bit of the. In my ears, I hear a little bit of that element. [00:59:00] Speaker C: Okay, so here are the verses. So verse one is. Won't do no good to hold no seance. What's gone is gone and you can't bring it back around. Won't do no good to hold no search light. You can't illuminate what time has anchored down and then. Honey, I've gone away. Hey, I've gone away. I've gone away. This is like the least amount of lyrics ever from her. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Yeah. She's like, I'm gonna save the least for last. [00:59:24] Speaker C: Up until this point, there's not a lot of lyrics, but there's a lot of lyrics in the song. Still not going to be quick. [00:59:29] Speaker B: Coming up. [00:59:30] Speaker C: It's still for five minute song. [00:59:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:32] Speaker C: Let's continue. Here we go. [00:59:38] Speaker D: Song. No sound could simulate the presence of a man. Won't do no good asking no questions. Your divination should acquaint you with the play. Oh, I've gone away. I've gone away away. We are gone away. I feel for your boy. It's a caring for me, I pray, is to save you. [01:00:49] Speaker B: I was wondering if she was going to take it somewhere else. Kind of had a feeling it might go somewhere else. But I mean, the chorus reminded me of Criminal as well. Me personally, I heard kind of some of that melody in there. [01:01:01] Speaker C: Sounded very jammed together, though. [01:01:03] Speaker B: And it's a similar topic as, well, kind of. [01:01:07] Speaker C: Yeah. But going from that, like the beat that it went to, it just changed on dime. Which I don't know is good or bad. [01:01:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not. I don't know. This one isn't really grabbing me either. [01:01:19] Speaker C: I didn't hate the chorus. [01:01:20] Speaker B: It's okay. I mean, like I said, it kind of reminded me of. I heard that melody in there. [01:01:24] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't know which one was written first, so I can't really tell you who's copying from whom. So. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Which hand is copying from the other. [01:01:32] Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. Okay, so the verse is. Won't do no good to sing no love song. No sound could simulate the presence of a man. Won't do no good asking no questions. Your divination should acquaint you with the plan. Oh, honey, I've gone away. Honey, I've gone away. Honey, I've gone away. And now the chorus. My feel for you, boy, is decaying in front of me like the carrion of a murdered prey and all I want is to save you, honey or the strength to walk away. Even in these kind of lyrics, it's still. The lyrics are good comparatively to other people. [01:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah, no, she's. She. Yeah, she's good with words. Like I said, even when you know exactly what she's talking about, she still says it in an interesting way. It's not just, hey, get, you know, get away from me. [01:02:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, there's a little guitar in here too. And she's. Now we're back into the. The same kind of beat, I guess for the rest of this. Let's see. [01:02:40] Speaker D: You can. Can't intimidate me Back into your arms because, honey, I've gone away I've gone away I've gone away I've gone away I've gone away I've gone away Decaying in front of me like the carry on of what I pray. [01:04:08] Speaker B: And all. [01:04:10] Speaker D: I want is done Save you, honey all the strength to walk away. [01:04:24] Speaker E: My. [01:04:25] Speaker D: Feel for you, boy Is decaying right in front of me like the carry on of a murder queen and all. [01:04:40] Speaker E: That I want is to save you. [01:04:45] Speaker D: Honey all the strength to walk away. [01:06:04] Speaker B: Did you like your little guitar section there? [01:06:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I like the little guitar section there. It was a little bit different. I don't know what I feel about this yet. I want to read the lyric and then we can talk. So really the only lyric I'm going to have to read is verse because everything else is the same. So verse three is. Won't do no good to go no distance the space between us is as boundless as the dark Won't do no good to throw no fist Babe, you can't intimidate me Back into your arm Arms. So again, good, good words. Again. I just don't know if the verse and the chorus fit together. That's my problem. [01:06:41] Speaker B: I do think they fit better this time, though. I think. I think. I think she flowed better this time into it because she kind of carried that note into it, which she. I don't think she did the first time. So, like, okay, I feel by carrying it, it's a. It's a little bit better. To me, it isn't even about that. It's also about the melody. And I, again, I. I really hear, especially in the chorus, that whole kind of criminal thing going on to me. I don't know, it's kind of like a drawn out version of that song. And I think this song could use a little bit, a little rock to it maybe. Kind of like, that one has, and who knows? Maybe that would have made it too similar to me. But I kind of hear a little bit of oomph. I think if it had a little bit of more oomph, I mean, like it a little bit more. [01:07:22] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I think I'm gonna make this easy. I think I'm just gonna throw sixes across on this because I don't hate it. It. But I don't particularly like it that much. It's not one of my favorites here. I mean, there's parts of it that I like, and other parts are just. The first course is too jarring. The second chorus is better. I mean, the work, the words are all good, so I can't really, you know, I'm not gonna really complain about the words and, like. And everything really is good here. Production is good. Everything's good. But I'm gonna throw sixes across because I think that's just, for me, the easiest thing to do, which means I get to play another thing, don't I? No. Do I have any sixes? I don't think I have any sixes. No, I don't have sixes. [01:07:55] Speaker B: No, we don't want to. We don't want to celebrate sixes, right? [01:07:58] Speaker C: No, Sixes is not a celebration because. [01:08:00] Speaker B: It doesn't want a playlist. [01:08:02] Speaker C: Yeah, this is true. [01:08:03] Speaker B: That doesn't end up on playlist. [01:08:04] Speaker C: What do you think about this? [01:08:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'll say six on the lyrics. I'm gonna say seven on production. I mean, I do kind of want to throw in the fact that I keep saying it, but for what it is, I think it's produced really well. Again, melody. I'm gonna say five. Arrangement to say five. What am I missing? Music. I'll say six on the music. I mean, again, it's not. It's not a terrible song. It's not bad. And again, soaking it up straight through it may have different effect on me. It's kind of weird because I'm. I'm kind of glad. I understand how this song was at the end, but I don't know if it's a good ending song, but I'm saying, where else would you put it? It's one of those weird ones. I think we've had issues like this where we're like, oh, if they ended it here, or Switch needs two songs. [01:08:47] Speaker C: I don't think that works here, though. I can't tell you where I would move any songs around at this point. [01:08:52] Speaker B: I know it's hard yeah, it's almost. [01:08:53] Speaker C: Like this is two different albums. [01:08:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this one is more in line with maybe some of the stuff people may have expected here in Criminal. Because I do think that there's some of that going on here. Me personally, with the melody and they're kind of like slower versions, but they're more akin to that as opposed to, you know, straight up her singing and a. A smokey jazz bar. Just her in the piano kind of deal, which I heard on some of the stuff on the first side. Yeah, I mean, listen, overall, it's pretty good. I mean, especially for her being that young. You know, lyrically, I mean, obviously she was very good. I mean, again, jazz is kind of like the jazzy stuff I'm cool with. And again, I mean, I listen, I give her credit for some of the arrangements and stuff that may or may not have been for what is maybe considered a pop record just because she had a pop hit. So, I mean, just the fact that there was. There was stuff on here like, oh, cool. Like this doesn't really sound like that. It's more akin to some of the other stuff that I like. So that's always, you know, cool thing. Because I didn't know what to expect going into this at all. I didn't really know anything other than those two songs. [01:09:54] Speaker C: So, yeah, it's definitely a surprising record. It's definitely not a straightforward record. If you like Criminal, you may not like this. It's a hard thing to try to figure out. To me, I mean, everything played very well because obviously whoever's playing on this is very accomplished and they're good. But to me, this is more of a her record. Like, her voice is really the record and everything else is just like background. It's not like we normally talk about the drums and the bass and the guitar, you know what I mean? Because it doesn't really mean anything here. Yeah, it's about her lyrics and it's about her voice. And that's really, for me, that's what this record is about. For better or for worse, when I really don't know she. What she's done after this at all. I don't even know this. So I definitely don't know what she did after this. She has a couple of records after this. I don't know anything about them and what they sound like or anything similar. I don't know. I'm sure it doesn't stray too far. [01:10:41] Speaker B: Probably not. I would think it's kind of in that same. In the same vein. But who knows. I mean, some of the stuff here is. Well, again, I'm not going to say it's out there, because it's really not. I do think, though, I mean, like, even you were saying that at least one of the songs on the second side probably could have drawn some attention, but Way Criminal did. So I'm kind of surprised that they didn't go with anything on the second side because I do think it's a little bit more in that vein. Even if they had shortened some of the songs out, you know, we're not. We're not the record people and we didn't sell millions of albums like she did with this. [01:11:11] Speaker C: Yeah, obviously. [01:11:12] Speaker B: Did we say how much she sold? [01:11:13] Speaker C: Almost 3 million. It sold very well. [01:11:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:15] Speaker C: So why don't you do your thing? [01:11:16] Speaker B: So, yeah, another one in the books. So I will now say that we are part of the Deep Dive Podcast network. Again. Great bunch of guys took us in right away. If you want more individualized podcasts about bands, then check it out. You got Rush, Feudish Priest, Uriah Heap, Tom Petty, Zeppelin, Queen, you name it, it's on there. Very knowledgeable people and who know exactly what they're talking about. So definitely check them out. And mark, where can they find us. [01:11:43] Speaker C: On the Interwebs Rock Roulette pod On all the socials, go to rock roulettepodcast.com submitted new bets so we can get some more stuff on our little baby wheel. Don't forget to put the automatic download on. So you get our episodes that are now released every Tuesday. You'll get all the new episodes. Listen back to the old episodes. There's still old episodes getting listened to, so. Which is freaky to me that people are listening to stuff that we did two years ago. So it's a little strange, but I guess that's the nature of the beast. [01:12:09] Speaker B: We have, God, two years. [01:12:12] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a long time. We have, you know, we have over 100 episodes, so it's a lot of stuff. If you're going back catalog, it takes a while to get through that kind of stuff before you even get to new stuff. So next week we get to spin again, which is nice. This is definitely an outlier on the wheel. I mean, you know, it got put on there specifically because of Criminal and how big it was in the 90s. But I had no clue about what the rest of this record was like. Besides the two songs. I knew this is like the outlier for us. [01:12:38] Speaker B: I'm curious to hear the second one. [01:12:40] Speaker C: Yeah, there's three at least that I know of, I think. Yeah, it's interesting. All right, people, we will see you next week. [01:12:47] Speaker B: Ciao. Ciao. [01:12:48] Speaker C: Later.