Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: This is our musical reaction breakdown and commentary analysis of this song. Under Fair Use, we intend no copyright infringement and this is not a replacement for listening to the artist's music. The content made available on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only, notwithstanding a copyright owner's rights under the Copyright Act. Section 107 of the Copyright act allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders for purposes such as education, criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship and research. These so called fair uses are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. Now on to the Rock Roulette Podcast.
[00:01:14] Speaker C: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Rock Roulette Podcast. That's right, the Crazy Apps podcast that took over 1,500 albums, stuck them in a list, stuck them in a wheel, and typically every other week we spin the wheel. She picks a record for us and we go through it track by track. We talk about the music, the lyrics, the production, the arrangement, and the melody, and we give it scores. A bunch of guys who love music, grew up together. And tonight we are a trio again. We have Frank.
[00:01:40] Speaker D: My name is Frank.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: And I'm Sexy.
[00:01:56] Speaker E: Good evening, everyone.
[00:01:57] Speaker C: We have Mark. Oh, hi, Mark.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: What's up, guys?
[00:02:00] Speaker C: And I'm Sev.
And of course, we always like to thank anybody who's listening Again, drop us a note, tell us what you like, what you don't like. Reach out. We'll definitely reach out back, you know, we'll interact. Again, we really want to thank everybody who's listening. Last week, the Wheel officially picked for the first time a Kiss record, because we did do Creatures of the Night. Mark said, hey, how about these? Whatever. And I made the choice. But this time she actually finally picked it. And of course picked Music from the Elder, a very controversial album amongst Kiss fans. I think that anybody who was around when it came out probably understands more than anything Frank's reaction, because he's basically saying, what the hell is this?
I was always told that it was a worst Kiss album, but when I heard it, I was like, this isn't bad. Of course, the track listing was different. I think. Frank. I know that we kind of touched on it a little bit, but I think, and Mark probably agrees, you're probably gonna like the second side better than the first. You're like, what the hell is this? Right, Frank?
[00:02:57] Speaker E: Yeah, and I'm a passive Kiss F fan, so I can only imagine what the Die Hards were going through when they first heard this and what was going through their mind. I Mean, for me, this is not the band that I know and their sound.
[00:03:08] Speaker C: I think, at least based on what I've heard on some Kiss podcasts, you're pretty much saying exactly what they all said. Mark, was this an immediate, like, for you, or did it kind of take some time to grow on you back in the day?
[00:03:21] Speaker A: It's really weird. I don't remember this happening, but I obviously was a Kiss fan at this point. Maybe I had waned a little bit in this little weird error that was there. I knew Kiss was around, but me, I wasn't listening to it as much. I think I remember it coming out, like, every Kiss fan going, I don't understand what this is, because without any context, it's a little hard to understand what's happening here. There's no lyrics. There's no, hey, this is from a movie. This is going to be a movie. This is what's going to happen. I don't hate the album again. I think it's a good album, just not a great Kiss album. There's songs on there I like. I like a bunch of songs on the first side, and I think I like a lot of songs. More songs on the second side. So I think Franco liked the second side. On the US it was flipped pretty much. All these other songs, I think were moved up. I'd have to look at the actual track listing. I know the Oath was the beginning of the US Version. I think Frank's gonna like this side a little bit better.
[00:04:08] Speaker C: That's the first song I heard from this album. When I played it, I had your copy. And the Oath comes on. I'm like, hey, man, this is good. What are people talking about? I do think that the first side ends pretty strongly. I know, Mark, you and I gave some pretty high scores to the last two songs on the side. Frank not as much, but I think he probably enjoyed the Ace Frehley song the most.
[00:04:27] Speaker E: Yeah, I did. That's been the one that I've liked so far. The most, by far.
[00:04:31] Speaker C: Okay, well, before we get back to that, obviously, we have our new Bets in a world where new music is not easy to find.
Welcome to New Bets.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Righty, here we go. Here's the new Bets wheel.
[00:05:10] Speaker C: You know what's funny? I just read that.
So it's awakened by Breaking Benjamin. I actually went to see them live. They were the headliner. That was actually the same night that I saw Chevelle. I also saw Three Days Grace. I think that was actually it, because by the time we got there, we got A little bit late, so he missed the first two bands. One of them was Dorothy, and I forgot who the other one was, but. Cool. I'm going to say one thing. I probably will not like the production on this, but you never know. I've heard some good songs from them. I mean, they were definitely good live. They put on a pretty good show.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: It might surprise you. You never know.
[00:05:44] Speaker C: I like some stuff I've heard from them. And like I said, they were. They were good live. My wife is a pretty big Breaking Benjamin fan.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: All right, so this is Breaking Benjamin. Aw.
[00:06:09] Speaker D: So far away I'm dead Awoken I'm faded Out of breath Life falls to gray Hope of the hopeless and I pray without a prayer God my come in the hollow between you Find the venom in me Rip my world apart in the sorrow beneath you Find the devil in me Stay forever Awaken I arise I still hear the cold night I'm taken by the time Light falls to gray Hope of the hopeless now only cost remain Tear my head apart A broken life has left me pouring about Stay forever I am l I awaken all right.
I still hear the cold life I'm taking by the time Stay forever in my light I am awakened I survive and I still hear the call of light Breath I'm taking by the time Forever I awaken by your eyes I still hear the cold light I'm taking fire the child Stay forever in the light I awaken I survive and I still hear the call FL I'm taken by.
[00:09:26] Speaker C: I don't like the drum sound. It's funny because I like the heavier parts of it as opposed to the catchier parts. And in the beginning, I really wasn't digging it as much. I liked when it came in heavy. Then I'm like. And then I was liking it more and more kind of as it progressed. But I do like, to me personally, the heavier parts of it than, like the chorus.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: I mean, I thought it was pretty good. Definitely the late 90s, early 2000s sound that happened. And the mere fact it can kind of pull that off 25 years later. Gotta give them credit. I mean, the drum sound is what everything is now. So I'm not a real big fan of that. I mean, other part of the production was okay. It was fine. I liked it.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: And it did some cool things with the kind of the stops and the things that they were doing. I mean, I think if this song was kind of full blown heavy, I would really like.
But again, I didn't dislike it.
[00:10:13] Speaker E: Yeah, not bad to Mark's point. Here we are 25 years later and they still sound as tight as they did when they first came up on the scene. Very new metal sound from the early 2000s. Drums. Yeah, I can hear it's a little bit thin there, but the heavy parts are really heavy. I agree. If this song was heavy all throughout, it would have been a really good song. Really great song. It's a good song. I like it.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Alrighty. Let's rubber stamp this. Here we go.
[00:10:36] Speaker C: In a world where new music is not easy to find, welcome to new bets.
I think we're ready to get back to music from the Elder, the movie that was never filmed, which I still can't believe hasn't been done. I think we talked about this. At least do something animated at this point. Come on, guys, why not? Gene, where's your vision?
[00:11:08] Speaker E: How do you have a soundtrack to a movie that was never made? That's what I'm trying to figure out still.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: Well, I came before the chicken and egg kind of thing, except there's no chick, chicken or no egg in this one. Do you pick which one?
[00:11:20] Speaker A: Yeah, they did it before anything was really solidified.
So it was a bad move on their part.
[00:11:24] Speaker C: Mark. I mean, do you have. I mean, maybe at some point we probably should read the little blurb that they had on the record. I mean, that is one thing the people typically say is that it really is kind of like just the typical hero journey. Pretty much give a little bit of it. Yeah.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Yeah. But they didn't give enough for you to figure out what the was happening here. That's the problem.
The next song coming up is A World without Heroes.
[00:12:00] Speaker D: A world without heroes is like a world without sun.
You can't look up to any. Anyone without heroes In a world without heroes Is like a never ending race Is like a time without a place A pointless things, A void of grace where you don't know what you're after or if something's after and you don't know why you don't know.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: I've always liked this song. I like the vibe of it. I like the melody. I think Gene Simmons does a really good singing job on this. It. It kind of reminds me of a 70s ballad.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: I've always liked this song. It's one of my favorites on the album. I think at least it has some kind of a place where you could take it out of this, this whole thing and put it on its own. And it feels like it's just a standalone song, not part of the actual concept. So that's why I like it.
[00:13:10] Speaker E: I'm with Tab on this one. It sounds like something from the 70s, that classic power ballad. I'm picturing like one of those old school bars with like a lot of wood, wood paneling. That cigarette machine in the corner. While this is playing in the background. Like that kind of a scene. That's what I'm saying when I hear the song.
[00:13:25] Speaker C: Old Logan drinking at the bar.
[00:13:28] Speaker E: Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, with those fluorescent lights and the. And the Billy Dee William neon sign.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: Cold 45.
[00:13:40] Speaker E: Yeah. Colt 45 drinking in the background.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: I like the music in this thing too. I think they're doing a really good job. And his vocals are pretty decent. Much more tender.
[00:13:50] Speaker C: Gene Simmons, just like he did on the first side. So I don't know. Paul Stanley has, let's say, the more powerful voice. Gene has a pretty good voice as well. Definitely. In things like this, I feel like he feels what he's singing. And I like the keyboard thing that's going on. I've always liked that.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: It's produced well. Bob Evans is doing a great job on this. Okay, so here's some lyrics. A world without heroes is like a world without sun. You can't look up to anyone without heroes. And the world without heroes. It's like a never ending race. It's like a time without a place. A pointless thing devoid of grace. Chorus. Where you don't know what you're after. Or if someone's after you and you don't know why you don't know. In a world without heroes. It's not too bad.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: No, they're good. And my understanding. I know that Lou Reed has a writing credit. I don't know if it's true. I heard he only gave the title. I think I read somewhere. I don't know if that's true or if he gave more than that.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: It sounds right.
[00:14:44] Speaker C: I mean, lyrically it's not bad that none of the songs have really been terrible. Lyrically, I think that they have had to use their imagination to paint a picture. They've painted it pretty well from a nerdy standpoint of something that could be a fantasy type movie. I think it's a pretty good record in that even the songs that we haven't liked. Lyrically, it's still painting a decent picture. Or trying to paint some kind of picture of what could happen in this movie.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Never know that Pop House owns all the Kiss stuff. We may get some kind of music from the Elder Animation or something.
[00:15:13] Speaker C: Pop House meets Blumhouse here we go.
[00:15:17] Speaker D: In a world without dreams Things are no more than they seem In a world without heroes it's like a bird without wings Or a bell that never ends Just a sad and useless thing where you don't know what you're after or if something's after you and you don't know why you don't know.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Great solo Fits the song. It has to me almost like a Neil Sean vibe to it. It reminds me of a Journey ballad. It Mark is that is Ace.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: No, Paul Stanley. Wow.
[00:16:40] Speaker C: A little bit of an Ease vibe to it though. That's pretty good. I give him credit. Go Paul.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: He does a really good job on this. It's a very good solo.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: Absolutely perfect for it.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: I like the whole overall vibe of the song. It's very mellow.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Me too.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: It's not schlocky like some of the other songs in the first side. Like I said, it's more self contained to me. Like you could take this out of this and put it in another album and it fits fine.
[00:17:04] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: Verse 2.
In a world without dreams Things are no more than they seem and a world without heroes it's like a bird without wings or a bell that never rings Just a sad and useless thing. And back to the chorus. And there's gonna be an outro which is. In a world without heroes there's nothing to be there's no place for me so let's finish it out. It's a short song. 241. We're almost done here. We.
[00:17:32] Speaker D: There's nothing to be it's no place for me.
[00:17:53] Speaker C: The promo video ends with him with a tear, right? If I remember correctly.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Yes. Yes it does.
[00:17:59] Speaker C: And they have short hair here. Shorter hair. It's a good song.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: Frankie, why don't you go first?
[00:18:04] Speaker E: So far, Yeah. I like thought of the side like Sav said. It's like that classic 70s sounding vibe going on here. I think the lyrics are really good. I'm gonna give the lyrics at 8. I mean I like the music a lot. I'm gonna give that an 8. 7 the rest of the way. It's really cool. How about you Seth?
[00:18:20] Speaker C: I think I'm gonna do eights across the board for this one. I've always liked it. I think it's really well produced. The words are good, the music is good. I'm going to go eights across quintuple.
What do you think, Mark?
[00:18:31] Speaker A: And now we're going to have to do it again.
[00:18:33] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: I always like this song from the get go. It's One of my favorites on this album. I like the symphony stuff behind it. I think everything's really good here. I always enjoyed this, you know, the tear coming on the video notwithstanding, it's a little schlocky.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: It was emotional.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: It's the fakest tear in the world though. When you see it, you're like, oh, if they had CGI, they would have CGI'd it. But they didn't. So they just like put it on his face and like, oh, that's not real, Frank, we're getting started. Not too bad for a side.
[00:19:02] Speaker E: Not bad, not bad. You know what they were to make a movie out of this one. What I picture is like a superhero who's just in real life a loser. Lives in his parents basement still. He's like in his 40s being a superhero and all. Doesn't know how to fit into life. Like this is what I. I could picture that opening scene of some guy living in a basement.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: So this is the oath.
[00:20:09] Speaker D: Cannot see I come for some.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: I.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: Obviously a lot of people know this as the first song on the record. This is what I knew I heard this. I'm like, okay, this is pretty heavy. What's the problem here? The funny thing is though, I've never really been bothered by his falsetto and this. And all of a sudden I'm kind of like, I don't like it as much as I used to. All of a sudden I'm noticing it more. I don't think it does to this song what it did to Just A Boy in the first one because again, I think the music is heavy behind it. You got the double bass going in the chorus, which is cool. Frank, what do you think about this one?
[00:21:23] Speaker E: Good so far to kick it off. A nice followup for sure. I love that the guitar riffs opening it all up. It has reminded me of like that Barracuda song when it's coming on.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: But.
[00:21:34] Speaker E: But I like it.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: I like the riff. I'm still not a big fan of the falsetto. I think just as you're saying Savino now it's bothering me even more.
[00:21:44] Speaker C: Yeah, dude.
I was like, wait a second, he does it twice. It's like the pre chorus and the chorus. Why am I all of a sudden hearing it and going.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: 100%? I wasn't ever noticing as much. It's not like I haven't heard this album whole lot. I put it on periodically, but maybe because it's in headphones now, it makes it even more pronounced. I just don't know. It's a bad choice. And I think he thought it was a bad choice too. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything he could do about it because I don't think he could hit those notes, probably. I guess, unless it was a creative choice, that they were going to do this falsetto thing.
[00:22:17] Speaker C: I want to say he couldn't do it, if I remember correctly from his book, and that's why he really hates that he did it here. I mean, think about Crazy Nights, Paul, Stan tackling this probably would have sounded better. He doesn't use it in the verse. My thing is, why don't just sing it out regularly. This was always one of my favorite songs, and I'm listening to this falsetto. I'm like, wait a second.
That's what happens, you know? I guess headphones a critical ear all of a sudden and things show up.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Verse 1 Like a blade of a sword I am forged in flames Fiery hot tempered steel fire bright to the night I tame I fear not. Pre Chorus now compelled by something that I cannot see, I go forth surrendering to history. Chorus your glory I swear I'll ride for thee.
Your power I trust, it walks with me. Your servant I am and ever shall be again.
[00:23:08] Speaker C: It's telling a story. I'm okay with that. I'm assuming this is at least the beginning of the end of the mission or being thrown into that battle. I'm okay with the lyrics.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Generally, the music is good.
I think it could have been produced a little bit different. At certain points it feels like it could be heavier and it's not. I mean, it could be the time. The technology guitars weren't as distorted in this point as they could have been. Maybe falsetto. I can't believe it never bothered me that much till right now.
[00:23:34] Speaker C: When he does it in the pre chorus, I'm like, okay, I'm. Then before the chorus kicked in, I was like, I think he does it again.
Let's see how it goes around the next time.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Here we go.
[00:23:59] Speaker D: Hundred times a month under my fears now inside the fire of the ancient your glory I swear I will be your power I trust it runs with me.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: I guess it didn't bother me as much that time. Why he didn't just power it out like he does the verse. I'm surprised. Maybe he thought that's what it needed. Did it bother as much this time?
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Mark it's kind of the same as it was. What bothers me more is during the chorus, the double bass mixed so low. Yeah, I don't like the way the.
[00:25:07] Speaker C: Drums are mixed here, it is a bit oddly mixed. I agree.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Here we go.
[00:25:52] Speaker C: That part kind of harkens back to Odyssey, I think. What do you think of the soul?
[00:25:56] Speaker A: There's really not much going on there. That's Paul Stanley again there too.
[00:25:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: Let me read the lyrics and then we can talk a little verse through is through a dream I have come to an ancient door Lost in the mists. I have been there a hundred times or more Pounding my fists pre chorus.
Now inside the fire of the ancient burns. A boy goes in and suddenly a man returns. Returns chorus. Your glory I swear I'll ride for thee. Your power I trust it walks with me. Your servant I am and ever shall I be. And then the next thing is the bridge. I gave my word and I gained the key. I gave my heart and I set it free. There's no turning back from this Odyssey Because I feel so alive suddenly. And I wonder, is this really me? Lyrics are not horrible.
[00:26:41] Speaker C: When I said it harkens back to it, I meant the music. I didn't realize that he actually said that again. And lyrically, I like. It's painting a picture. They are painting pictures with these songs. A lot of people say, well, it's not cohesive listening in this order. You do have a picture of something that is happening. I don't think it's absolute confusion whether or not it's perfectly whatever. But it's not really meant to be. I mean, it's meant to be a movie. These are songs that accompany the movie. Honestly, too. Where the fuck would you put all these songs in a movie anyway?
[00:27:09] Speaker A: I have no idea.
[00:27:10] Speaker C: Imagine having every one of these songs, songs in this movie.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: I have no idea what they were thinking of on how they were going to do this.
[00:27:16] Speaker C: I think it's a soundtrack and the suggestions that probably would have played, you know, pieces of certain things in the background, you know, underneath, probably.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: I like the Phaser Flanger Bridge Bar. I like that. That wasn't bad.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: Just because it reminded me of Odyssey. It's weird, man. I was like. I remember liking this song more than I did now. And it's not bad. I mean, that main riff is awesome. My ear is a little bit more critical of it this time.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: Well, that's what happens. You listen to it in headphones. You're like, I don't understand. I really didn't realize the drums were mix rapidly until right now. And he's playing some cool stuff. It's just not mixed very well. Alrighty, let's continue Here we go.
[00:28:10] Speaker D: I hear you now come help us.
I trust.
[00:29:08] Speaker C: Actually, I like that ending. I remember hearing this, really, on vinyl, and I recorded it from vinyl. And I want to say, kind of sounded better. Maybe it's a little bit extra dirt on there because of hearing it that way. It's definitely not a bad song. It has that Kiss vibe to it, I think. And I do like the lyrics. Is there any other lyrics? Lyrics?
[00:29:28] Speaker A: Yeah, there's more lyrics. Verse 3. Like a blade of a sword I am forged in flame. Fiery hot tempered steel fire bright to the night I tame. I fear not prechorus now compelled by something that I cannot see, I go forward, surrendering to history. Chorus, your glory I swear I'll ride for thee. Your power I trust it walks with me. Your servant I am and ever shall I be. I have to say one thing. Thing. You know what always bothered me about this? Now reminds me, at the end of the chorus, he goes out of the falsetto, which I don't particularly like. Like, you should have just did the whole chorus without the falsetto. Yeah, you do the falsetto and then at the last two words or whatever, you come out of it. I think that always bugged me. Generally, I like the song, but there are a couple of weird things that I don't particularly like. Why don't you go first?
[00:30:14] Speaker C: I think I'm just gonna keep it simple. I'm thinking of sevens across the board. Just want to think if I. Music lyrics, Melody. I like. I don't know where to ding the falsetto. It bothered me more than it did in the past, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does in Just a Boy. Let's do sevens across. I'm not gonna go too, too crazy.
[00:30:33] Speaker A: Honey, that ain't no pistol. It's quintuple seven. Nikki Titty, baby. All right.
[00:30:39] Speaker C: What do you think, Mark?
[00:30:41] Speaker A: I always thought I'd like this more than I do like it, I guess. I don't know. I like the lyrics. I'm gonna give those a seven. The melody's fine.
I think I'm gonna ding in the melody and not in the arrangement. Because I think the arrangement is good. I'm say six on the melody because that's where I have to ding the falsetto. Music 8, arrangement 7 and production 6. Because I don't like the way the drums are produced. I like other parts of it, but I think if the drums were a little more upfront, a little more powerful, it would be a better song.
[00:31:06] Speaker E: Frank, I really do dig the Music and I think that with different lyrics this would be a really good song. Because of the music. I'm gonna give the music an 8.
Lyrics. Not a fan at all. I get it. It's telling a story like Savino said, but it's very Middle Earth, Dungeon Dragons kind of a thing. It's not my style. I'm gonna give them a five. Melody of five. Production, I'll give it a seven. And arrangement, I'll give it a six.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: Okay, so the next one is Mr. Blackwell.
[00:32:10] Speaker D: Do what I want, I don't give a damn.
You're all so weak. You know it makes me ill.
Don't like you now it probably never will.
You cheat in life and wonder why you can't sleep at night.
You're not well of Mr. Blackwell and we can tell you're not well of Mr. Blackwell. Why, why don't you.
[00:33:01] Speaker C: There are parts of this song that I like. I think the bass is really good. The mixing of his voice the two ways. I mean, obviously Paul Stanley's doing background, but the mixing of Jean's voices in this I think is really good as well. The drums are really low in this one. I. It's a pretty strong kind of riff and I'm surprised that the drums are not more powerful.
I've never been crazy about the. The melody of this song though. I've always had a little bit of an issue because I would assume Blackwell is the villain in this. There are parts when he's. What he sings and says this cool. Sounds cool. I haven't always been crazy about the melody.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: I do like this a lot. I like the bass, I like his doubled of his vocals. I like the guitar riff in the chorus.
The drums are a little bit low. I don't particularly like that too much. I only hate the melody. This is one of my favorite songs, I think on here. I don't know why I like this song so much. You would think I wouldn't. This is a Lou Reed co write as well.
You know what I always think when I think of this and you might think I'm crazy. Always reminds me of the Grinch. I don't know why.
Now when you listen to it, you're going to be like, holy, it is the Grinch.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I totally see that.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: Maybe it's just some of the lyrics and the way it's presented. I don't know. I can see the Grinch singing this. I don't know why.
[00:34:12] Speaker C: It is overall one of the strongest songs on the record. I will say that.
[00:34:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I like A lot, Frank.
[00:34:17] Speaker E: We think, you know, the beginning sounds like, you know, they're calling, like, dragon or some shit from the depths of somewhere.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm not surprised, Frank.
[00:34:26] Speaker C: Is that a Dragon fan?
[00:34:27] Speaker A: No. You have to live with this album for a little longer. That's the problem. You take the good things where you can get them. That's how I look at this.
Wherever I can get something good out of this, I'm like, okay, that's not so bad. Okay, so here, the lyric. I never said I was more than I am. Do what I want, I don't give a damn. You're also weak. You know it makes me ill.
Don't like you now and probably never will Pre chorus. You cheat and lie and wonder why you can't sleep at night Chorus. You're not well, oh, Mr. Blackwell and we can tell you're not well, oh, Mr. Blackwell why don't you go to hell? And the lyrics are not the best.
[00:35:00] Speaker C: A little bit on the nose, especially considering how creative some of the other stuff has been.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: Yeah, this is very on the nose. All right, here we go.
[00:35:17] Speaker D: I am a fighter who just loves to win I am the truth about this crummy hole there's nothing here that can't be bought. More soul cool you're calling me and in between you're rotten to the core.
You're not well, oh, Mr. Blackwell and we can tell you're not well, oh Mr. Blackwell we why don't you go to hell?
We are a victim of real disgrace.
You should be.
[00:36:17] Speaker C: Again, I really like the bass in this song. Is that we assume that's him playing?
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. And there's a little bit of delay on the bass, which I like, too.
[00:36:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I like those little effects that they're doing in the verse. Not the craziest about the melody. I do think, overall, it is one of the strongest songs.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I do like it. Verse 2. I'm a sinner who just loves to sin I'm a fighter who just loves to win I am the truth about this cormy hole. There's nothing here that can't be bought or sold. Pre chorus. You're cold and mean and in between you're rotten to the core. That's the part that reminds me of the actual Grinch. You're cold and mean in between you're rotten to the core.
[00:36:52] Speaker C: Isn't that a line in the Grinch? Don't they say that you're rotten to the core?
[00:36:56] Speaker A: Maybe that's what reminds me of it. And then Chorus is back to the same chorus that we did before. And the bridge is, you're a victim, a real disgrace. You should be banished from the human race. And now, guitar solo. Here we go.
[00:37:22] Speaker D: Ram it.
[00:38:16] Speaker C: Who was that on the solo?
[00:38:17] Speaker A: Mark, do you know Ace Fraley's 100?
[00:38:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Backward guitar, so it's pretty cool. I like that. I never noticed the Mr. Blackwell things that were all distorted and then they flip back and forth on the stereo thing. I like that.
[00:38:29] Speaker C: I was thinking after the solo, those voices like Temple of Doom.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: It's an interesting song.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:33] Speaker A: Again, I take what I can get here, man. This sort of remotely sounds like anything I like. I'm like, yeah. And we're gonna go, Frank, what'd you think of that part? Do you like it? Did you not like it? Is it growing on you?
[00:38:42] Speaker E: I mean, I think I like it because you brought up the Mr. Grinch part. Now, I cannot unhear that.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: I know.
[00:38:48] Speaker E: I can totally see it being the soundtrack to the newly remade Grinch movie where they made him into a killer. Oh, this. That song would be great right there.
[00:38:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
What's that one called?
[00:39:00] Speaker E: You're the Meanest One. Or something like.
[00:39:02] Speaker C: Yeah, something like that.
[00:39:03] Speaker E: Cannot on hear it now. Like, I'm. I'm literally laughing here.
Lyrics come stuff.
[00:39:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I've been thinking about that for, like, 40 years.
[00:39:12] Speaker C: I can totally say absolutely.
[00:39:14] Speaker A: Once I say it now, it can't come out of your head. If you ever hear the song again, you can be like, oh, that's the Grinch. All right, here we go.
[00:39:19] Speaker D: We'll drink to sorrow Then we'll drink to was we'll drink or toast to the inhuman race here's to the world and the times we re.
Here's to the kid, a real man on my.
You're not well of Mr. Blackwell, and we can tell you're not well of Mr. Blackwell. Why don't you go ahead?
[00:40:36] Speaker C: Definitely some interesting things. I think that. That work. This is obviously, Mark, you're the biggest Kiss fan here. They get knocked about a lot. I don't know how much of this is Bob Ezrin and how much is them, because I know he's very hands on and even like Destroyer. There's a lot of things. Things that he did as opposed to what? And obviously that was years before this, and they were definitely younger. But I like to think that Gene Simmons has some creativity at least in this. It's kind of his own. Hopefully. He kind of said, hey, let's do this or this or at least listen To Bob. Enough to say. Yeah, that sounds cool.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: Things a combination. There's a lot of cocaine going on here.
[00:41:09] Speaker C: Not for Gene.
[00:41:10] Speaker A: No, not for him. Verse 3. We'll drink to sorrow Then we'll drink to waste we'll drink a toast to the inhuman race here's to the world and the times we're in here's to the kid, a real man among men. Same pre chorus. Same chorus and then out. I like the riff. I'm gonna go first. I like the riff. I like the double vocals. Regene. I like the bass part with the delay on it. I like the solo. I mean, lyrics are okay. I'm gonna say six on the lyrics, seven on the melody, eight on the music, seven on the arrangement and eight on the production. I think it's produced well.
[00:41:43] Speaker E: Frank Lewis is six.
Everything else, I'm gonna give them sevens. I do like the music and the production is done really well. And the arrangement, everything about it is otherwise good. It's just, you know, the lyrics are not that great.
Now I will forever see the Grinch if I should ever run into this song. Yeah, yeah.
[00:42:03] Speaker C: I'll say six on the lyrics, seven on the music.
See, production is hard because I like some of the stuff that's going on. On I'll say seven. I mean, again, the drums are low but there is some interesting stuff that's going on like with his vocals and even the delays and the kind of stuff echoes that's going on with. With the bass and everything. Melody, I'll say a six and arrangement. I'll say seven.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: It's one of the higher songs. It ended up being a seven, which makes sense.
[00:42:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I think overall it is one of the better ones.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: Okay, so the next one's just an instrumental. So this is Escape from the island and this is a Bob Ezrin, Eric Carr, Ace Fraley written song.
I don't know if it was always supposed to be only instrumental or that he couldn't get words to it and it just ended up being like this. But it's short. It's like 252. Here we go.
[00:43:09] Speaker D: It, SAM, SA SAM.
[00:45:42] Speaker C: I remember the KST three guys. One of them said this was his favorite cooked out jam of all time.
[00:45:50] Speaker A: It 100 sounds like an ace Riley riff.
[00:45:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Is that him playing bass? Would we assume that that's him?
[00:45:56] Speaker A: No, that's Bob Ezran playing bass.
[00:45:58] Speaker C: It has a different tone to it.
[00:46:00] Speaker A: Tar parts were good, Bass parts were good, Drums were good.
[00:46:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:03] Speaker A: I mean we're not going to rate this because it's instrumental. But it was pretty cool.
[00:46:06] Speaker C: Yeah, pretty cool.
[00:46:07] Speaker E: I like this. One of those songs you just hear like in an all out ballroom bra, man. Maybe like that kind of a jam.
[00:46:13] Speaker A: Roadhouse.
[00:46:14] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what I'm thinking about. Like on a roadhouse. I like it. It was good. And. And listen, I. I've always liked Ace and his style of play and he does so like it.
[00:46:24] Speaker A: And now we get to Frankie's favorite part of the record, the last song.
[00:46:27] Speaker E: Oh, thank God.
[00:46:28] Speaker A: So this is I. Alan Schwartzberg plays drums on this. I think everyone else is playing their regular stuff. I don't know why Eric Card didn't play on this. Maybe it's Bob Ezrin thing to get someone else to come in. Maybe me. This is Gene Simmons, Bob Ezrin written song. Here we go. This is I.
[00:47:17] Speaker D: I was so frightened I almost ran away I didn't know that I could do anything I needed to and then the bolt of a lightning hit me on my head and I began to see I just needed to believe me that I believe in I believe in something more than you can understand Yes, I believe in.
[00:48:08] Speaker C: Do you think the drums sound differently than they do? I mean, obviously I'm not somebody else playing, but they just sound differently. I like the riff. I've always been a fan of the kind of gallop thing. This song to me, especially at the end. End. To me, this one sounds like it's from something else. Another session. I can understand where you can attribute it to a hero. I believe in me. But it doesn't sound like if this is the last song and this is kind of a piece of to film, whatever. It doesn't sound like the journey has ended here. It just sounds like almost during the journey this is where it should have come in. It's weird.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: I like it. I like the Paul and Jean split vocals. I always like when they do that. So that's cool. Cool. The drums are good. Alan Schwartzberg is doing a great job. I like the riff. I think it's produced very well. I like it so far.
[00:48:54] Speaker E: Savino said once earlier, I think Inside A to one of the other songs. It has a very Flash Gordon kind of feel to it. It's a good last song. That's talking about the beginning of a new journey, really. This movie is over, but there's more to come in this story of this superhero kind of a thing. That's what it sounds like. Like to me. It's like that very Flash Gordon. Everybody's celebrating because they just Killed the bad guy here, the Grinch. Grinch. And now they're gonna go after another Grinch. And they're all gonna celebrate that one, too.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: Well, Frank actually likes this song. Scary.
[00:49:24] Speaker E: No, don't get it twisted. I can't wait to the end.
[00:49:28] Speaker A: Verse 1 I was so frightened I almost ran away I didn't know that I could do anything I needed to and then a bolt of lightning hit me on my head Then I began to see I just needed to believe in me Chorus and I, I believe in me oh, and I, I believe in something more than you can understand Yes, I believe in me Whoa, oh and I, I believe in me oh, yes, and I, I believe in something more than you can understand Yes, I believe in me Listen, Paul Stanley, I don't hate the song. I actually like this one a lot. Again, I take whatever I can get out of this album. If something's decent, I'm good.
[00:50:05] Speaker C: This is also another song that I liked more than hearing it now. It's weird again because I was always a pretty big fan of this song, but hearing it like this now, like h. Okay, so we'll see as it progresses.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: Okay, as it progresses. Here we go.
[00:50:34] Speaker D: Ain't no, ain't no make believe When I die I be the one I got to do Must be something I believe in Something more than you can understand Yes, I believe in well, you know that I, I believe in I believe in you, you can understand Yes, I believe in this I believe in this I believe in this yeah.
[00:51:43] Speaker C: I can always do without finger snaps.
It does have that vibe to it though, doesn't it? That leather Gang west side Story thing about it. Even the way he sings is a bit almost doo woppy.
[00:52:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I forgot about the finger snapping. I was not a fan of the finger snapping. And another thing I noticed, I didn't really realize through this whole album, Paul Stanley is the boy. But now in this song, they're both singing the boys parts kind of like throws everything into a weird place.
[00:52:16] Speaker C: It kind of relates to the story, but I don't feel that it relates as well as the other songs do. It doesn't feel like the end piece to me. Me, it's kind of weird. And it's not a bad song. I'm just saying, story wise, I feel that this was more of him upping himself before the Final Battle kind of thing. And yeah, I mean, I know they mentioned parts about winning and things like that, but I always felt that this at the end was kind of an odd choice.
[00:52:41] Speaker A: Well, especially in this version, where it's the end of the thing, there should have been fanfare for the end of the album. I think if you're going to put it in this order, maybe there was. Who knows? If they never got to finish it, maybe. I don't know. Who knows? You're never going to know the real answer, probably. Okay. Verse 2. They said I didn't stand a chance I wouldn't win no way But I got news for you there's nothing I can't do Ain't no pretending Ain't no make believe But I got to be the one I got to do what must be done and then back to the chorus again.
And then the finger snapping. Oh, boy.
[00:53:15] Speaker C: But even there, right, I need to do what must be done not I did what needed to be done. Done.
[00:53:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess.
[00:53:21] Speaker C: You know, they actually performed this in Italy.
[00:53:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Yeah. During the promotional tour. Yeah, I saw that.
[00:53:26] Speaker C: Yeah. I think I actually knew this song before I knew of the album.
[00:53:31] Speaker A: It was a hard time for them in the United States. They weren't doing great. They had to move somewhere else.
[00:53:34] Speaker C: That festival in Italy was massive. A lot of big names have performed there.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: And then you have Kiss doing finger snapping. That's good. That's always great. Okay, here we go.
[00:53:49] Speaker D: I don't need no money I don't need no fame no I just need to believe in me and I know most definitely no need to get wasted it only holds me down I just need a winner of my own and the most stand above Yes, I believe in me what? Do you Yes, I believe in me do you? Do you? Yes, I believe I will believe in.
[00:54:48] Speaker C: Me that part there where they're like, do you. It reminds me of do you love me? Do you really, really, really love me?
[00:54:55] Speaker A: The lyrics make zero sense now. So I'm going to read them and you're going to see how zero sense it makes now, where this definitely was not a song written for me. I don't need no money I don't need no fame no I just need to believe in me and I know most definitely I don't need to get wasted it only holds me down I just need a will of my own and the balls to stand alone what the fuck does that have to do with the actual story that's going on?
[00:55:17] Speaker C: Again, if you want to say it's the boy, fine, but not here. This doesn't sound like a person who did something. It sounds like, to me, somebody who's about to do something or may have done something, but Not. I've always thought this song. At the end, I was like, is this part of this? Or is this kind of a song that they wrote? And like, hey, hey, let's add it to this.
[00:55:37] Speaker A: I think so. Because just reading the last verse and then they were saying during the chorus. You feel it too, don't you? Do you? Do you? I want to rock and roll all night.
[00:55:45] Speaker C: Wait, does he say that?
[00:55:46] Speaker A: Yes. I'm gonna back this up a little bit so you can hear it here, listen.
[00:56:08] Speaker C: Oh, my God. I didn't catch it the first time.
[00:56:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. So this is definitely a song that was for something else. And they just tagged it on again.
[00:56:17] Speaker C: Paul Stanley doing that Elvis thing. I don't feel that his heart was in this album.
[00:56:24] Speaker A: He's had a couple of those. He's had this One and Carnival Souls. I don't think his heart was in that either. There. It's just one of those things. So let's finish it out. There's a spoken outro, so let's do that part. Here we go.
[00:57:04] Speaker D: Morpheus, you have been summoned here to offer your judgment of the boy.
Do you still deem him worthy of the fellowship?
I certainly do, my lord.
[00:57:19] Speaker B: Matter of fact, I think you'll to like this one.
[00:57:22] Speaker A: He's got the light in his eyes.
[00:57:25] Speaker D: And the look of a champion.
[00:57:29] Speaker A: A real champion.
[00:57:38] Speaker C: Again, kind of a weird thing, right? It sounds like he's still a boy here and he hasn't done anything. This album has a reputation for a reason. And for at least a good chunk of it. You can see the kind of a story unfolding is these little things are kind of hiccups and forget. If you listen to it out of order, then it really makes no sense at all.
[00:57:58] Speaker A: Yeah. If you listen to the original us pressing, this makes zero sense. At least this makes sort of some kind of sense until you get to the end. And then I just Makes really zero sense as, you know, part of the whole thing. You're right. And then they tag that little end part on which. Okay, I don't know. I'm going to go first, I guess. I don't know what to do here. Here I thought I'd like this song better than I did. Lyrics. I'm going to say. 6. They're not great melody. 6 musicianship. I think the music's played well. I'm going to give that a 7 arrangement. Arrangement's fine. 7. And production, I think it's fine, too. 7. It's middle of the road. You're right. It doesn't make sense as part of the whole concept thing. It's not a very good, fleshed out concept album like a Pink Floyd concept album. It's missing things in places. It doesn't stay within what it needs to be.
[00:58:43] Speaker E: Be frank, I'm doing sixes all the way across. As far as the concept album where it fits, I think it's positioned correctly. Again, it's not ending a story at the ending of this chapter and getting ready for the next one kind of a thing. So it's staging for a part two, and I think that's what this song was kind of doing here. Overall, sixes across, it's not something I'm going to go back to and put on my greatest Kiss playlist for sure. Sad.
[00:59:08] Speaker C: Yeah. 6 lyrics lyrics Mark, would you do 66-777-Yes, sir. Yeah, we'll just do the same. Make it easy. When you were given the scores, I was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna do the same. I heard, and I'm not sure if this is true, but there was a sequel that they were thinking about something of the gods. I'm not kidding.
[00:59:24] Speaker A: They couldn't even get past the first one, though. How were they gonna make a sequel?
[00:59:27] Speaker C: All in all, I think it's an interesting record. I think it progressively gets better from where it starts out. In terms of the song songs. It starts off very shiny and then it gets a little bit heavier. Yeah, you get kind of a notion of what's going on, and I think each song is a little bit of a story within itself. But yeah. Can I understand people saying what?
Yeah, I can understand that too. I think in general, Kiss fans, even if they couldn't appreciate in the beginning, they could appreciate it now. There were parts of this that I thought I liked better than I did. You know, sometimes the mood you're in, the way you listen to it or whatever.
[00:59:58] Speaker A: No, I still like it as an album. General. There's a bunch of songs I do like. There's a lot of inconsistencies, and that's fine. I know there's gonna be Kiss fans that like it, Kiss fans that don't like it. I'm in the like it category, but there are things on there that you go, oh, that doesn't really make any sense. Oh, why is that there? With time, it gets a little bit better, I think, in time. So, Frank, since you didn't hear this really very much, what is your overall thinking about this?
[01:00:21] Speaker E: I mean, I've been thinking about this a little bit, and I'm Trying to think, was there ever an album from a group I was a fan of that was released that left me saying, what the hell is this crap? I hard pressed to find one. The only two, maybe would be Nine Inch Nail Ghosts one through four. And first listen, you're like, what's going on here? What is this? Why is all piano? But as the album progresses, you start to realize, yeah, this is inside of Nine Inch Snails wheelhouse. This is definitely their sound, this is their music. And the other one I could think of was Danzig. Black Ari. When I first heard Black Aria, I was confused by. As the album progressed, you can hear it's like, oh, well, this is definitely Danzig. This is is his creativity. This is his mindset. This is who he is. This album, I have no idea who this is. You know, you hear some maybe Kiss here and there. Overall, it's just a band that just completely abandoned its signature sound and went a different direction, which for reasons I.
[01:01:15] Speaker A: Don'T know, they wanted to be taken seriously. And they thought this is the way it was going to happen. They were going to do a counts up record like Pink Floyd. They got by Resin back in. He was going to help them out. Meanwhile, he was coked out of his mind worse than he'd ever been in. It wasn't the easiest thing to get done. Ace Freely had a bunch of guitar solo stuff that was left off of this. So there's more Ace on here, or at least recorded anyway, that wasn't put out. That would be a good thing for an expanded box set. Some Ace stuff on here that no one heard. Yeah, that'd be good.
[01:01:41] Speaker E: But when you say they want to be taken as a serious man, I don't know what that means. I can understand like an actor who's done goofy comedy, you know, college kind of comedy based movies, suddenly wants to be taken as a real actor and they start doing some drama. I get that. But from a musician standpoint, like, what does that mean? Mean they want to be taken serious.
[01:01:58] Speaker A: Because the makeup and things, the reviewers and all the critics didn't like them. They thought it was all about the makeup. They couldn't play music, they couldn't play their instruments. So they want to show them, look, we're going to do what Pink Floyd did. This is what we're going to do. This is our the wall. This is our dark side of the movie. Unfortunately, no one really wanted that from them.
[01:02:16] Speaker E: No, no.
[01:02:16] Speaker C: And I mean, Rush 2 had already done 2112 in 1976, you know, which.
[01:02:21] Speaker A: Is half concept Kiss was handcuffed by their makeup and their show. And once they were the biggest band in the world in the mid-70s, 70s, late-70s, they were big. You can't get away from that. I guess they felt handcuffed into this thing that they couldn't get out of. And they figured this is the only way they could get out of it. And it would take two albums more before they really got out of it.
[01:02:39] Speaker E: There's nothing wrong with being who you are, I guess. I don't know. Again, from a performer standpoint, I'm just trying to think of that. Specifically James Gandolfini. If you saw him in anything else, you just say that's Tony Soprano. That you're stuck with that role. But that role is what made you so famous and so great. Why try to be something different? I don't. I guess because I'm not in that position.
[01:03:00] Speaker C: I mean, this is really a gene concept. It's not too far fetched from. If you think of it that way. Hey, listen, a lot of bands and artists, they try something different and sometimes it works for them and sometimes it doesn't. I mean, look at the album. They came out right after this. Creatures. It was an immediate response. Rock and Roll over was an immediate response to Destroyer because of how different that was for them at the time. And Saved Name. Who produced Destroyer? Bob Ezrin.
[01:03:25] Speaker A: It's not my favorite Kiss album. I know it's a lot of people's favorite Kiss album. It's not my favorite Kiss album. I mean, there are songs on there I like a lot. And I played the out of that album when I was younger. I think I'd like Rock and Roll over better. Tell you the truth. That's just me.
[01:03:37] Speaker C: Better than Destroyer.
[01:03:38] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:03:38] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm not a massive fan of Destroyer. There's parts of it.
[01:03:42] Speaker A: There are great songs on there. I think a lot of Kiss fans too, if they were earlier Kiss fans, they came up for the first three records and got alive and that came out. It was too polished. It was too much. Not as bad as this thing is because this is like in left field. It still sounded like Kiss, but just polished. And then Rock and Roll over and Love Gun were produced by Eddie Kramer. It was more of a back to basics kind of thing. I think I like those albums a little bit better in general. And listen, the wheel in her infinite wisdom gives me Kiss, but gives me this. It loves me so much. It's like, oh, here's your Kiss. Oh, but by the way, I know you like Carnival Souls. We're not going to give you that one. And it's not going to give me any other Kiss out album, but it's going to give me music from the Elder, which I don't hate. But I just find it funny with the albums it picks.
[01:04:21] Speaker C: I mean, it is good to get something like this, though, where it's kind of dig your teeth into it and, and say, well, here's the consensus on this. Now we have to be very critical about it. So I think it's a good one to come up for them.
[01:04:33] Speaker A: All right, Sab, why don't you do your thing?
[01:04:34] Speaker C: We are part of the Deep Dive Podcast network. Like I always say, a great bunch of guys took us in right away. If you like individual podcasts about bands, check them out. You get Cheap Trick, who is performing in Dutchess county this summer. For anybody interested, check it out. Or Uriah Heap. Almost everybody else is on there, so check them out. And mark, where can they find this?
[01:04:55] Speaker A: On the Interwebs Rocklit pod on all the social media. Rockerlitpodcast.com go to the poll, send us an email, buy some merch, put us on your auto, download. So you get our episodes every week. Review us wherever you do your podcast reviews. Give us a five star. That helps move us up. Share out our episodes. That always helps. Share it out to people you think might like it. Next week we get to spin again. Let's see what it pulls up this time because obviously it was with me this time, so we'll see what happens next time.
[01:05:21] Speaker C: It still hasn't given us that heavy album. I mean, it gave us Pantera once and a couple Metallica just talking about like new heavy. We always keep talking about that and that's something that she really hasn't given us.
[01:05:30] Speaker A: I think now it knows you want it, so it'll never do it for you. All right, we'll see you next time week.
[01:05:36] Speaker C: Ciao, ciao.
[01:05:37] Speaker E: Take care.
[01:05:37] Speaker A: Later.
