Episode 168 - Ace Frehley - Trouble Walkin' - Part 1

[00:00:04] Speaker A: This is our musical reaction breakdown and commentary analysis of this song. Under fair use, we intend no copyright infringement and this is not a replacement for listening to the artist's music. The content made available on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only, notwithstanding a copyright owner's rights under the Copyright Act. Section 107 of the Copyright act allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders for purposes such as education, criticism, comment, news, reporting, teaching, scholarship and research. These so called fair uses are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. Now onto the Rock Roulette Podcast. But you're kind of like a spaceman. [00:00:53] Speaker B: No, actually I'm a plumber. [00:01:02] Speaker C: He's one sandwich, sort of a picnic basket. [00:01:09] Speaker B: He had a bad experiment in the the plutonium didn't work right? [00:01:24] Speaker C: Come on and tell me. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Listen, I got a little piece of pipe backstage I'd like to have you work on. [00:01:30] Speaker C: Tell me about it. Look, it's rock and roll. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Rock Roulette Podcast. That's right, the crazy ass podcast that took over 1, 600 albums, stuck them in a list, stuck them in a wheel and typically every other week we spin the wheel. She picks a record for us and we go through it track by track and we give it scores. Just a bunch of friends that love music wanted to do a podcast and we take a trip every week, pretty much, or every other week of discovery and rediscovery. And we really, really want to thank everybody that takes this trip with us. The listens have been going up, so whoever you are, thank you so much. If you're spreading the word, thank you so much and reach out to us, let us know what you like, don't like. Maybe some songs you want to hear or, or some albums you want to hear. We're always there. Mark is always there listening and answering. I know I put him on the spot without a doubt. We really appreciate it. And speaking of Mark, we are a duo. Tonight we have Mark. Oh, hi Mark. [00:02:48] Speaker A: What's up guys? [00:02:49] Speaker B: And I'm Sev. [00:02:50] Speaker A: Ciao Buena Sierra. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Last week we wrapped up an album by the band Fate, which we had never heard of. It was their third album, Cruisin for a Bruising. My general consensus was there were some good hooks in there. Musicianship was pretty decent. My favorite part of the most of the songs were the solos. I thought they did a pretty good job when it came to that. I mean, okay, overall, definitely of the era, nothing spectacular or hey, wow, look at what we discovered, I would say, Mark, what was your overall take? [00:03:19] Speaker A: I didn't know they actually existed. There were some interesting melodies. There were some guitar solos that were okay. But in General it was late 80s copycat metal. It was fine. [00:03:28] Speaker B: The name Fate, obviously from. I think it was two members from Merciful Fate and definitely sounded nothing like that. This was their third album. Who knows if the other two are on the list? Maybe you'd be surprised about anything else that they had done. Maybe with something different. Different. This week is a special episode. It's a tribute to Ace Frehley, who just passed away. Shockingly, no pun intended. It wasn't really expected. Maybe back in the past, when you read the stories and everything that happened to this guy, you're like, oh, he's going. He's going. He's going. Just like kind of Ozzy, where you kind of assume somebody like that is going to go at any time. And then they don't. And you just kind of expect them to live forever. Me personally, Ace was my favorite of the group. I always thought he had the coolest look, probably the coolest personality. Even though he wasn't the drumme, he was a guitar player. But I would say he was my favorite. Mark, I know he was your favorite, right? [00:04:16] Speaker A: Ace was my favorite. It's a big bummer. I know when I heard he was sick that we thought it might have been a stroke. If it was, it was going to come back from this, if that's what it was. I wasn't expecting him to pass away. Even though I think he was living on borrowed time for a long, long time. It's just a big shock. He's one of my big guitar guys. Even before I was going to be a guitar player when I was seven years old, I got a live too, just seeing those guys. And if you didn't grow up in the 70s with Kiss, it's a little different if you were in a bit later, Even if you were in the 80s, because they were like superheroes. They have superheroes. They were on everything. When they came on tv, it was a big deal. Everyone had KISS shirts and merchandise and lunchboxes and thermoses and whatever. Anytime someone of that stature goes, I'd have to say he may have influenced even more people than Eddie Van Halen. Just because he seemed approachable. His style seemed more approachable. When you heard him play, he said, oh, maybe I could do that. And he was from the Bronx. I didn't know that right away, obviously, when I was younger. But knowing that later, it kind of made you feel like you're under. Understood where he came from. That makes sense. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Absolutely. It made you feel that you could do it as well. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:21] Speaker B: I think he was transcendent. And I say that in a sense that I mentioned this before. Me being a drummer. Peter Chris is probably my second favorite, but Ace was my favorite. And I think that a lot of people, no matter what instrument they play and they think about Kiss, and if they like Kiss, they'll probably say Ace is their favorite. I think he's a favorite for a lot of different musicians and people because of his personality and his look and everything that he had, his Persona and that spaceman Persona that he had, the influence was. A lot of people mention Ace Frehley as a. As a reason why they picked up the guitar. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. In all different styles, from metal to rock to blues to whatever. He influenced a lot of people, even if it's not readily apparent. That's why I think it's as big as Eddie Van Halen dying. Just because he was a lot of people's first guitar hero and he was mine, and I wasn't even a guitar player at that point. It was another 10 years before I played guitar. Just him and his approachable style. And it's not like when you heard Eddie Van Halen, you go, what the fuck is that? How am I gonna even do? He went, oh, I may be able to do that. Not that it was easy, but it sounded more approachable. I never thought it was going to happen like this. I mean, obviously they're all getting older. I didn't think he was me the first one to go, though, to tell you the truth. Just because he was the youngest out of everybody, I figured Peter would have went first. It just didn't work out that way. Bummer. Way to go. Falling down the stairs, having a couple falls. From what I can gather, he never woke up after the second fall. They were just, you know, keeping him alive just so people could get there. When they took him off life support, it kind of went fairly quick. I didn't know the guy, but again, he came from the Bronx. You felt like, we're from the Bronx, he's from the Bronx. You have this kinship thing with anyone who makes it, thinking that you could do that too, like you said. And he's been the only guy that's really been prolific, even though he had a big gap of time where he didn't really put new music out. And even though Kiss was in the middle of that, too, he put out more records than everybody. He actually had a career. Career. And we saw him three or four times. [00:07:11] Speaker B: I think we saw him three times. From what I remember. I was a bit disappointed the last time. I know I probably mentioned it on here only because when we saw him the first time, I felt it was more varied of his discography. And then the second time, he threw in more Kiss, things that weren't necessarily his, like Detroit Rock, City, Love, Gone. And then the third time, he kind of did the same thing. And like. And it wasn't the sound that was bad. I don't think they ever sounded bad. I don't think he ever sounded badly. He sounded like Ace. Good or bad, depending on what you think of him. I think he sounded like Ace, which was fine. I never sat there saying, ugh. It was more of the song choices. And just the fact that the second time we saw him, which was two years or no, maybe more. [00:07:54] Speaker C: Right. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Because the second time we saw him was before the Pandemic. And then the set. The third time was after. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was 22. I think we saw him the last time. One of the first shows back after the Pandemic or was either 21 or 22. I don't remember exactly. I think I have the ticket stub someplace. But we saw him all in the same place. We all saw him at the Chance and Poughkeepsie, which is not there anymore. Three times we saw them was there. And I felt that he usually took a little bit of time to warm up. First couple songs, he was more sloppy than normal. And then he kind of got into a groove and he was okay. The stuff that I've seen lately, recently, before he passed, in the last year or so, it was getting a little rough. And I don't know if that coincides with what happened with him and his fall. And were those things or related him not playing everything on 10,000 volts. I just don't know. Maybe they're not related at all. Some of the stuff that I've seen a year or so ago, up until now, you just felt like he was not 100% with it. And again, 74, he's not 25 anymore. You kind of forget, you know, he's been around almost my whole life, except for seven years when I was a little kid. He's always been there. It's a little weird not to have him around. [00:08:54] Speaker B: It is. It is weird. I mean, all the details aren't out yet. Exactly. Exactly what happened. All that it said, you know, he had a Couple of falls. I mean, no matter what, it sucks. Tell you what though, that brigade though, that 70s, 80s kind of guys, you got to give them credit, a lot of them are still kicking around. Some of the. The 90s people, the ones that we've lost, I feel more of than that era. Which is odd considering exactly the lifestyle that these people led. I mean, you read the Dirt by Motley Crue and after every page I say to myself, how are these guys still alive? [00:09:24] Speaker A: There are another bunch of guys who are living on bower time, I think, especially Nikki Sixx. He already died at least one time that I know of. It's just a big bummer. He was a big influence for me. Big influence to a lot of guitar players. A lot of big guitar players that everyone knows. It's just. He knew it was going to happen eventually. It's not going to matter when. It's just going to suck no matter what. We're not here to do a somber thing. [00:09:44] Speaker B: No. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Pay a little bit of tribute. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Yes, we are going to do, in case you couldn't guess, an Ace Fraley album. But before we get to that, obviously we have our new BET section. In a world where new music is not easy to find. [00:10:00] Speaker C: Welcome to New Bets. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Here is the new bets wheel. [00:10:24] Speaker B: Fury. What's it gonna be? Any clue? [00:10:26] Speaker A: What is it gonna be? [00:10:28] Speaker B: What will it be? [00:10:29] Speaker A: What will it be? I know nothing about this. I know I put it on here. I think I put it on here because it sounded a little throwback if I remember. Let's do this. Fury, what's it gonn? [00:10:58] Speaker C: You don't wanna do this. You think you have to get through this. You wake today but don't know how to change. You don't wanna prove it that's got the wide truth is alter your cause there's a better way the strength inside you won't give up now you will find your way out. Cause this is your life this is the time you're the only one who quite so take a leap of changes you need. It's not too late to be dream so I now you made it through now the storm at the end those will try to tempt you lying inside you pull the wheel through your way out. If this is your life this is the time. You're the only one who knows why to cry. You take a leap of faith the changes you need. It's not too late to realize you dream so what's it gonna a f in the roof? I wish path will you take Your future is calling my Tries to make decision is lost now it's all in my hands. Believe me, I know that you can cause this is your life this is the time Yu nobody, right? So take a leap of faith make the changes you need. It's not too late to realize you changes your life this is your time. You're the only one who knows what is right. So take a leave of f Make the changes you need. It's not too late to realize you dream. So I take it so I gotta be so what did you not be? [00:14:03] Speaker B: Not bad. I like the voice. I think the best drums, boy. [00:14:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that drum sound, man, just everywhere. [00:14:11] Speaker B: Oh, I don't like that drum sound at all. It diminishes the heaviness of the song. The main guitar stuff isn't bad. The voice isn't bad. The melody is not terrible. Definitely a little bit of a throwback, without a doubt. [00:14:21] Speaker C: What do you think? [00:14:21] Speaker A: I liked it. It needed a guitar solo. It's so throwback that it needs that do all this throwback stuff and then you get to that part and you just decide, nah, we don't need a guitar solo there. I'm a guitar player, so I'm for guitar solo. And they're from the UK, it looks like. I don't think it was bad. You have a little bit of faith when you hear you start hearing stuff like this. You just wish people would get away from trigger drums and the replacement drums and that kind of stuff. [00:14:42] Speaker B: I'm sure that album's on the list somewhere. Right? [00:14:43] Speaker A: They have a lot of albums. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Oh, do they? [00:14:45] Speaker A: Oh yeah. The latest one came out in March. I think that's what this is from Interceptor. But they have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 albums. [00:14:53] Speaker B: People probably like, you idiots. You don't know who this is? [00:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah, no clue. If you like it, let us know. If you don't like it, let us know. Let's rubber stamp attempt this in a. [00:15:03] Speaker B: World where new music is not easy to find. [00:15:09] Speaker C: Welcome to New Bets. [00:15:18] Speaker B: And now we proceed to the non somber tribute. We had kicked around the idea of putting the Ace Frehley albums we hadn't done in a wheel. But Mark, I give full command to you. You still said let's do trouble Walking. And I am fully on board with that. [00:15:33] Speaker A: I put a post out on social media. We didn't get a lot of votes, but we got a couple. And it was overwhelmingly let Mark pick. It was either put a wheel or let Mark pick. It made me feel better that that's what people want me to do. I'm going to pick that just because I think that's a good album to do. We could do any Kiss album technically with Ace Fraley, but I think we're going to hold those off for the real wheel to pick. We've already done Fraley's comment, so I would have picked that if we hadn't done anything, to me was between the second Fraley's comedy album and this. We already did 10,000 volts. I just think there's not enough Ace stuff on the second album. Really split maybe 5050 or 6040 with Todd Howarth. I think this is a bit of record. This is a record that he did and then he didn't do another record till 2009. Anomaly and there was Kiss in between that. I think this is going to be a good album. There's a bunch of good stuff on here. I don't know if you're gonna like everything on here. I like most stuff on here. I think it's a very solid record. Didn't really have any chart success. I think it went to like 120. The only single was do, yet it didn't chart, I don't think. Even though I think it's a really good version of do you. [00:16:28] Speaker B: It was made for his voice. When you hear him and you hear the original, just like when he did Fox on the Road. I mean, when you listen to the original, I had someone fooled, a very big Kiss fan fooled. I said, listen, this is Ace. But I had played the original and they totally believed it. I said, not son. He goes, get the hell out of this was before he covered it. Oh, and by the way, whoever voted, thank you so much for paying attention and voting and reaching out. That means a lot to us. [00:16:51] Speaker A: I didn't say that. But yes, whoever voted, thank you very much. I know everyone sees our stuff. We don't always get a lot of social media interaction, so this was cool that someone actually interacted. Even though we get a lot of listens, we don't get a lot of interaction. It was pretty cool. I'm taking everyone's advice and I'm picking. So this is what we're doing. I think it's good. Savino hasn't really heard this and if you have, it's been a long time. [00:17:09] Speaker B: It's been a bit. I've heard it the full thing and I remember saying, oh, I remember it being heavier than I remember when it first came out. Maybe in comparison to the very latest Comet stuff. Obviously not the 78 solo we could. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Have done the 78 solo, but I still think that's a Kiss record. This is a real solo record, and I wanted to do a solo record and not a Kiss record. It's Ace Fraley, Richie Scarlett on rhythm guitar and vocals. John Regan. He passed away too. He didn't live very far from us. I never saw him around. And Anton Fig on drums. Peter Chris does some backing vocals. Sebastian Bach, Davis, Snake Sabo, Rachel Boland, Pepe Castro. A bunch of people do background vocals. Eddie Kramer's the producer, which is always good. It says Ace Freely, producer here too, but I don't know how much he did. And this is 1989, technically, October 13th, so it's not that far away from when we're recording now. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:17:55] Speaker A: It's kind of freaky. Always like John Regan. I thought he was good with Ace. I actually didn't even know he was with Peter Frampton. How horribly bad is that? I only knew him from this back in the day. And I remember when the second record came out and Anton Fig wasn't on it and it was Jamie Oldacker was on it. I didn't realize he was with Peter Scrampton, too. Who the fuck is this guy? [00:18:13] Speaker B: I know he's not on For Elite's comment, but I remember, I think, talking about Oldacre. Oldacre. [00:18:17] Speaker A: We may have. It's possible. [00:18:18] Speaker B: I'm gonna remember a podcast that we did. That's an early podcast for us. [00:18:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's an early, early one. [00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Because remember in the beginning we were busting your balls. He's. [00:18:26] Speaker C: Come on, Mark. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Are you weighing the Wheel? Cause we had Van Halen, we had Ace Frehley. It was like back to back. [00:18:31] Speaker A: And then the wheel said, fuck you. I'm never giving you anything again. You got a bunch at the beginning. Suck it up. Yeah, let's do this. This is shot full of rock. [00:18:56] Speaker C: Wake up, Jack. Get ready. Here we go. To rock this town. Hold side. And standing over on the sideways dam, you must feel the power f your eyes upon the stage. Watch us now devour everything that gets in our way. Procrastination with my creation. [00:19:53] Speaker B: I think this is very reminiscent of his 78. I could picture this being on there. To me, it's an updated version of something he would have done then. Like, oh, cool. And even kind of. It starts off one way and then it kind of has, like, the double time and it's 78, but a little heavier. It's a pretty good song to start with. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Great way to start the record. I didn't really think of the 78 connection, but yeah, technically it could be. Anton Fig is doing a great job. Obviously. He's a great drummer and when you have him there actually in the studio recording with you, you're going to get some great stuff out of him. I think the riff is good. I like that little pre chorus. Chorus. That was pretty cool. And then the little ascending run. It's very Ace Frelli. And you're right, very 78 ACE Rail. It's a good way to start. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Yep. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Now I have to reword after the last two episodes of not reading any words. [00:20:33] Speaker C: Sorry. [00:20:34] Speaker A: No, it's okay. Raising boards are not going to be great. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I know that. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Well, they're not going to be great. I don't think this one's horribly bad. I think he does a really good job on this one. It's not as bad as it could be and I think it's always going to be better than whatever fate did. So I only have one way to go and that's up. Wake up Jack, get ready here we come to rock this town. Hold on tight and steady. Over under, sideways down. You must feel the power. Fix your eyes upon the stage Watch us now Devour everything that gets in our way. Your fascination with my creation adds stimulation. Rock till you drop. Hard rock nation lost generation end the frustration get shot full of rock. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Not that much better. [00:21:13] Speaker A: I think it's a little bit better. [00:21:16] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, like 0.5. I don't go to Ace for lyrics. I'm not gonna sit there ever with A's and say, yep, here we go. Let's check these lyrics out. [00:21:24] Speaker A: I mean, the melody is okay. I don't care about the melody. I think it's good. I don't think it's bad. I think the sentiment is good. [00:21:30] Speaker B: The vibe of the song is what I like more than the melody and the lyrics. A fist pumping song, especially for people who may have thought the before this was a little too poppy ish. Even though there's some really good catchy songs on there. He comes in with this and it's really the heaviest thing he's done. I mean, there's nothing really this heavy on Fraley's Comet. And it could be just a production because it was more slick. It was slicker than this. This is kind of more raw, which Eddie Kramer's infamous. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And he's doing a great job on this. It has swagger, if nothing else. Ace really had swagger, even on stuff that maybe was a little poppier. He still had a little bit of swagger going on. You can't teach that swagger. It's what he had. Not everybody really had that. I'm liking it so far. I. It's a good start. If you're going to start a record, it should start like this. In your face. I know I'm going to be a little bit biased. I'm Ace really fan, so everyone get used to it. Right now, there's going to be probably higher scores on this. Just because I really like this record a lot. It may be my number three or two in the solo catalog, depending on how I'm feeling. I always take the 78 solo. If we count that as solo record, I always take that as number one, and it's not counted as part of the solo records. I would say this and the first frails common to me are 1 and 2 or 1 and 1A. They can flip around, depending how I'm feeling. I think most Ace really fans feel that way. [00:22:41] Speaker B: I would agree. I would think so. [00:22:43] Speaker A: All right, let's continue. Here we go. [00:23:03] Speaker C: Catch the rush Take a chance if you care Ain't got time Just look after you better wear your fascination with my creation and stimulation Rock to drop all rotation of generation and the frustration get shot full of rock get shot full of rock Shot full of rock. [00:23:46] Speaker B: It grows on me the more I hear it. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Very catchy. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Ace doesn't necessarily have the best voice, but it fits and it's very unique. Other than when you hear him saying songs, you're like, oh, my God, that sounded like Ace. I think the four of them, for what it's worth, definitely each had their own style and pretty unique voices. That's the other cool thing as well. He's doing a good job with the sentiment of the song. The way he's singing it, he's got that New York vibe to it, which is cool. And I know that he says a word there that I heard, which I'm like, oh, he said that. [00:24:17] Speaker A: I have to say, in this song for Ace, his vocals are good here. As far as Ace Frehley vocals go, we're not going to compare him to Paul Stanley or Gene Simmons, even Peter Chris. I have to say, though, for Ace Fraley vocals, I think this is a really good vocal for him. There's definitely a double entendre in this song. [00:24:34] Speaker B: Oh, is there? [00:24:34] Speaker A: 100% a double entendre. You can tell by the second verse that's coming up now, which is haste to hard rock candy guaranteed to melt in your mouth Jump back now, Jim Dandy east, west, north and south Catch the rush all over Take a chance if you dare Ain't got time for posers look out, Dick. You better beware your fascination with my creation. That part again, then. Shot full of rock. And shot full of rock to me, can either be rock or it could be. Semen is another kind of milk. I'm sure that has something to do with the double entendre. But you know what? Don't pay attention to the lyrics, because it doesn't really matter what he's saying. Tell you the truth, he has the swagger and he has the song that makes you want to pump your fist because it's a real good hard rock song. It's a little more imaginative than that. [00:25:19] Speaker B: You say that because Frankie isn't here. [00:25:22] Speaker A: I say if he was here, too. I already got a text this week. Even though we've done the record, we figure if we got it out of the way, we wouldn't have to hear about it again, but it doesn't really matter. Guitar solo, which we were waiting for. Here we go. [00:25:46] Speaker C: Sam. [00:26:23] Speaker B: I thought those all really, really good with the song. Really cool. I'm reading something here, and you may have read it, and you may know where it said that Ace plays the first, third, and outro solos and Scarlett plays the second and fourth. They're trading off solos. [00:26:37] Speaker A: I was gonna say it didn't all sound like Ace. Really? I know that's a weird thing to say. I've listened to enough Ace Frehley, and when I had the Kiss tabs website and I tabbed enough of Ace Frehley's solo solo stuff, I can almost tell you it felt like they were doing an alternation. I don't think that was all Ace. I'm pretty positive it wasn't. [00:26:54] Speaker B: It was good, though. [00:26:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I like the solas where they run into each other and one is playing, then the other one comes on on top of it. Even if it's one person or if it's two people. I always like that it's not the typical Ace in the Kiss where it's a song within a song. I think this is more a blistering solo that's using Ace isms. I don't know how much he composed of the Kiss stuff ahead of time. It sounds like it's composed ahead of time. It may not be. Maybe it was just right off the cuff. I don't know. This is not that kind of solo. I think it was. [00:27:21] Speaker B: Yeah. It shreds. They shred I should say they do shred. [00:27:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:25] Speaker A: All right, let's continue. Here we go. [00:27:32] Speaker C: You must feel the power. Fix your eyes upon the stage. Watch us now. The power of everything that gets in our way. Your fascination in my creation and simulation. My. To the top, Sam. [00:29:17] Speaker B: I wish they hadn't repeated that part as much. If they would have done that part with little solos in between, I would have liked it more. I just felt like that part went on a bit too long. It didn't ruin the song. I say to myself, you got two guitar players when you kind of straight off some more solos. Especially after. After what you did in the middle. [00:29:34] Speaker A: If I have any criticism, I don't think the end needed to be as long as that was at the end. Anton Fig is playing his ass off. He's such a good drummer. Yep. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Doing some double bass. [00:29:43] Speaker A: Anytime you have him on a record, chances are it's going to sound good. Why don't you go first? Have an idea what I'm going to do, but I'm more curious about what you're going to do. [00:29:49] Speaker B: I will say an 8 on everything except I'll say 7 on the melody and a 5 on the lyrics. Don't kill me. Listen, no matter what, this song is making my list without a doubt. I do remember this song. I remember it being it a little to me saying, oh, wow, this is pretty fast for Ace and pretty heavy for Ace. I think it's a great lead off song and it's definitely one that I would absolutely go back to. What do you. What are you gonna give it? [00:30:13] Speaker A: I don't hate the lyrics as much as you do. After what I heard last week, I'm giving him a seven. I'm giving the melody a seven and then eights on everything else. The one other thing I could say is I wish the guitar sols were a little bit higher. I think the mix is great. I think Eddie Kramer's doing a great job. I think it's a great start. Now we get to the COVID I probably won't through lyrics and stuff on this, but we can. From what I remember, it's a great version of the song. This is in the times when Ace, when he picked the COVID he generally did a really, really good job. He had four or five records or three or four, whatever it was. If you count the solo album where he did a cover and you were like, wow, that's just a great version of that. It stays within that thing that he does of taking a cover and almost making you forget that it's an actual cover and not his. This is du. [00:31:12] Speaker C: Well, in this life I see everything I can see woman I see love is flying through the air hand in hand I see babies dancing in the midnight sun and I see dreams that come from the heavenly skies above I see old men crying at their own grave Sides and I've seen big house sitting Watching pictures slide But I ain't never seen nothing like you do you, do you want my love? Wants do you, do you want my face? I need it do you, do you want my mind? I'm saying do you, do you want my love? Well, I heard the crowd singing out of tune as they sat and sang on that side by the light of the moon and I heard preachers banging on their drums Rat ta ta da and I heard police playing with their guns I never heard nothing like you. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Picture this. Think about Paul Stanley's wouldn't you like to know me? Don't you hear it in this? [00:32:30] Speaker A: I never really thought of that. [00:32:32] Speaker B: Wouldn't you like to know me a little bit? [00:32:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:35] Speaker B: As soon as it started, I know I've heard this song a few times, but I really picked up. I was like, wait, that reminds me of a Paul Stanley song. [00:32:41] Speaker A: Could be. I never really thought. Thought of that. It's possible. [00:32:44] Speaker B: Say what you want about Paul Stanley in his book and everything, but he will admit when he borrows from people and he may make mention of that in the book, I don't remember specifically, he will tell you, well, this is a reworking of this. This is really this. He's very honest with that. Just a fun, stupid song, really. Right. That's really what it is. [00:33:01] Speaker A: It was made for his voice. It was made for his voice. I don't think if you had a better voice, it would sound better. I just think his voice was made for this. Again, like 2000, man, like New York groove. It's just one of those. He plays this song and it feels like it should be an Ace Fraley song and not cover some songs that just happens to. I know this didn't really do very much when it was released, but it's a really good version. It's a really good version. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Production's really good. His voice sounds really good. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Production is great. And there's a bunch of background vocals. I'm trying to figure out who's doing backgrounds on this. I know Peter Chris does it on Trouble Walking and a couple other ones here. [00:33:36] Speaker B: According to what I'm reading. Alfrish Pepe Castro, Pat Somers, Dave the Snake, Rachel Bolan and Sebastian Bach. Roll on this. [00:33:44] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Which makes sense because it's pretty big vocally. [00:33:48] Speaker A: And awesome production by Eddie Kramer. It's awesome. All right, let's continue on. Like I said, I'm not reading lyrics because he didn't write them. I'm sure everyone's getting the gist of what this is. Here we go. [00:34:11] Speaker C: Out on the field she lay ey down to rest in one time they come running Just to get a look Just to feel to touch her long black hair they don't give a dam Was I hate Never seen nothing like you do you, do you want my love, woman? Do you, do you want my face? Why? Do you, do you, do you want my mind? I'm saying do you, do you want my love? Come on well, I think you know what I'm trying to say Woman that is I'd like to save you for a rainy day I've seen enough of this world to know that I've got to got to get it all get it all to grow now do you, do you want my love, woman? Do you, do you want my face? I need it do you, do you want my mind? I'm saying that do you, do you want me? Come on and tell me do you, do you want my love? Do you, do you want my love? Oh, yeah. [00:36:09] Speaker B: That bridge part, when he has, like, the flanger going and everything, that is so ace. It's crazy. It reminds me to have, like, fractured a little bit, the sound of the acoustic and everything. I don't know how close it is. I know I've heard the original. I don't specifically remember that part. Without a doubt. That is so ace. [00:36:26] Speaker A: I think we're gonna vote on this, even though we usually don't vote on covers. Just because the COVID is so good. I'm just gonna say H across just because it could be the best song on the album. [00:36:36] Speaker B: Do you think? [00:36:37] Speaker A: I think so. We'll have to go through the rest of it. [00:36:40] Speaker B: That's controversial. The COVID is the best song. [00:36:43] Speaker A: No, not really. A lot of the stuff that he's done, the covers have been maybe the best song. I wouldn't say on the 78 that New Yorker was the best, but it was definitely the most popular. It charted. That didn't happen on any of the other guys. Just recorded really well. It's played very well. It fits him. He sticks his little ace thing in there. I always love when I heard that. I was like, oh, that's the coolest thing in place. First the world. He name checks himself. Yeah. What do you think? [00:37:08] Speaker B: I'm not gonna go that high. I think it's good. I will say six in the lyrics, eight on production, and seven on everything. I do think it's a great cover. I like the first one better if. [00:37:18] Speaker A: You take it as being not his song. Yes, I totally agree. It's not an ace fry song. I just think he does such a great job, though. [00:37:24] Speaker B: No, he does. [00:37:25] Speaker A: It's like 2000 Men on Dynasty. Like, who gives a about the Rolling Stones version of that? Really? It's not great. I've heard the real version of it. It's not. [00:37:34] Speaker B: But this is close to the original, though. [00:37:36] Speaker A: That's what I'm. [00:37:36] Speaker B: You know what I mean? So that's a big take on it. This is a great version of the original song. [00:37:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Everyone does an awesome job. [00:37:43] Speaker C: This is five card studies With a deck in my hand I'm the best to play in the game I'm known throughout the land at the tables you're fighting the stacking chips by my side home kitchen I'm 21 a winning hand is my pride Just cause the fact I'll take the one I check there's no holding back I'll call your blood winning a crime I win it all the time when money's on the line I play for blood I'm the five card star love. [00:39:06] Speaker B: I really like his voice in this song. I think he pushes it a bit and he makes it. When it first started, I'm like. And then like, as it went on, I was like, okay. I really like the chorus. The two separate choruses thing. Like, it's the same melody, just different words. [00:39:18] Speaker A: Very reminiscent of 78 solo. To me, his vocal is really pushed. He did that a little bit on the 78 record too. And he sounds good when he tries to push it, especially in this time frame. Later on in his career, maybe not as much, but he here. His voice sounds great for this. I think he was at his best vocal wise. Probably at this point. I would tend to think at least it sounds that way. From the 78 solo probably till now, it's probably the best. His vocals were. He had a bunch of stuff on Dynasty, a bunch of stuff on A Mast, and then his solo stuff. I think he was doing a really good job. And he's not a singer, I think. [00:39:47] Speaker B: Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't specifically remember everything he did on the Fraile's Comet albums. I feel that he's actually singing more here than he did on those two. Two records. There was a little bit more talk singing going on. This is more him actually pushing himself to sing. And it's coming across pretty well. [00:40:05] Speaker A: I would say that's true. I think that's why I picked this record. I figured this is the one right before the Kiss stuff started to happen again. I think it hit his stride. Unfortunately, it didn't do very well. The first two original songs here are good. I was never a big fan of the beginning riff. I don't hate it now. The other parts in the song are really good. [00:40:21] Speaker B: I'll agree with you. And I don't like the drumming behind that because the beginning either. It's too simple. [00:40:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:26] Speaker B: I just like when he kicks in. But it's like. And then it all kicks in. But I agree. I was like, oh, Ant, I don't like what you're doing here. Then he does that fiddle and then it goes into the song. I'm like, okay, thank you. Thanks. [00:40:37] Speaker A: He saved it. He saved it. [00:40:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:38] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:40:39] Speaker A: It's not lost on me that we're rock roulette and there's lots of gambling references in the song. Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that. [00:40:47] Speaker B: No, I didn't think about it either. [00:40:49] Speaker A: So here are the lyrics. I was born the son of a card shark With a deck in my hand. I'm the best at playing the game. I'm known throughout the out the land at the tables you'll find me a stack of chips by my side. Poker, gin or 21. The winning hand is my pride. Just cut the pack, I'll take the one eyed jack. There's no holding back, I call your bluff. It ain't no crime winning all the time. When Wendy's on the line I play for blood. I'm the five card stud. I do like that. He used the same melody and just changed the words around. It's interesting that he did that. [00:41:17] Speaker B: I'm glad. I really like the melody in the chorus. And I'm actually glad that we got two of them. And they're actually separate words. I really, really like that. [00:41:24] Speaker A: Smart idea. Let's continue. Here we go. [00:41:28] Speaker C: Don't try to. Let's get it understood. You'll never put one gras me cuz I know every trick in the book. Let's play for double or nothing if you think you're so good. Let's go, bro. A freaking Derrick show. You got one slim hope that ain't enough while you're out of love. You lost your bottom part. I hit a royal blood and I felt. [00:42:32] Speaker B: He Changed the chorus. That was cool. Completely different words. I'm a little disappointed, though, because when I hear Luck and Buck, you know what word I want him to say to rhyme. And he didn't say it. No, I was hoping for hey, we got a dick in the first place song. Right. [00:42:47] Speaker A: I didn't like that. They cut the second part of the verse in half. I wish they would have did this through more lines there. [00:42:53] Speaker B: He probably couldn't do it. [00:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah, probably not. [00:42:56] Speaker B: He's like, ah, Curly, I give up. [00:42:57] Speaker A: Hey, Curly, I can't do this. Let's just cut it in half. [00:43:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:01] Speaker A: I don't think the words are horrible here. [00:43:02] Speaker C: No. [00:43:02] Speaker B: It's kind of telling a story. Get, like, casino vibes. [00:43:06] Speaker A: Still not worse than fate. Sorry. Still better. [00:43:09] Speaker B: This one's better than fate. I'll give you this one. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Okay, I'll take that. Don't try to con me, let's get it understood. You'll never put one past me Because I know every trick in the book. Let's play for double or nothing. If you think you're so good, let's go for broke. Afraid you're going to choke? You got one slim hope that ain't enough While you're out of luck. Lost your bottom, Buck? I hit a royal flush and I smell blood. I'm the five card stud. And then they came back with the intro. Rick again. And I think it was better the second time. [00:43:34] Speaker B: It wasn't as empty because the drums weren't as empty. Yeah, but it's arrangement, right. That's a choice to say, hey, don't do it this time. Do it the second time. I'm cool with. Still not crazy about that riff overall, but it sounds better now because it's fuller than it was when it first starts. [00:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I was like, wow, that's much better than it was. What's different? Oh, the drums are different. That's why. All right, here we go. [00:44:28] Speaker B: If I had to guess, I would say the first part is Ace. The second is Richie Scarlett. [00:44:32] Speaker A: I don't know. I think it's all ace. Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure. I just think it's one of his solos where he has a little bit of shredding that's going on. Not a lot. I mean, I don't think that you would mistaken for Steve V or any stretch of the imagination in this time frame. He's not really sloppy. [00:44:47] Speaker B: No. But to me, it feels like the first part is. Has more feel to it and the second part is more showy. I Could be wrong. I mean, if it's all him, it's all him. That's cool. Just based on even hearing the solos in the first one, it sounded like two different people playing. I'm not sure you know better than I do. [00:45:03] Speaker A: I'm not sure that you're saying it. I think it's all him. It's hard to tell sometimes because Richie Scarlett's style is very similar to Aces. It's not like Todd Howarth and Ace Frehley. You can tell those two people playing here's the. Is a little blurred about who's doing what. Although I gotta say, when we saw him in 4x8, he was so loud. Oh, my God, he was loud and everything. [00:45:21] Speaker B: I was just about to say, I want to give a shout out to Richie Scarlett for any concert I have ever been to in my life. My ears have never hurt the way it hurt when we went to go see 4x feet. Holy. You know what? When we walked out of that place, I was like, they perked. He was so loud. It was crazy. They were good. [00:45:43] Speaker A: He was too loud, though. Too loud. He was. I don't care about loud guitar, but he was like so loud. You couldn't hear anything else besides his guitar. It was so loud. [00:45:50] Speaker B: Shout out to Todd Howard singing. [00:45:52] Speaker A: Yeah, he was good. [00:45:53] Speaker B: He was great. He was on point. They were really good. They were really tight. And they played songs that Ace wasn't playing. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Well, they played all the Todd Howard stuff. [00:46:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Which was good. He's got some really good songs with Ace. [00:46:05] Speaker A: And one of the songs that's on here they played too. The Richie Scarlett song that they played. That's on here, they played that night too. And we're not really John Regan. He's not super flashy, but he just holds everything nice and steady. [00:46:15] Speaker B: I haven't paid attention. [00:46:16] Speaker A: He doesn't really stand out. I never thought he's a bass player on any of the things I've heard him play on that. He stands out to me. He just seems like he holds it down. He's just there. That's what I think. [00:46:24] Speaker B: And for anybody who's ever seen him live, he just chill. Yeah, he just chill. He just. Yep. Just doing my thing on the base. [00:46:29] Speaker A: When he got older, when we saw him before, by fate, he was sitting down a little bit when he was playing. He was starting to get older. I forget how old he was when he passed away. It's only been a couple of years, right? [00:46:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it hasn't been that long. No, I don't think we mentioned it on the show. We did a little shout out. [00:46:41] Speaker A: I don't even remember when that was. All right, let's continue. Here we go. [00:47:04] Speaker C: It. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Similar concept to the first song, the ending. This one did not drag out as long. This one, I said, okay, cool, they're fading out. And they did a slight variation, which is what I wish they had done on the first one. So that was cool. I mean, I'm cool with that ending. [00:47:56] Speaker A: And then the. [00:47:57] Speaker B: The double bass going. So, yeah, another strong song. [00:47:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I like the riff at the end, too, that he interspersed in the rest of the song. That. That was good. And I totally forgot to say that I like that Eddie Kramer was using the ending to the left and right. He did that on the solo too. Lyric wise, it pretty much is the same thing. Going to the end, repeat some stuff. I'll have you go first. [00:48:12] Speaker B: I'll say eight on production and seven on everything else. I mean, it's a pretty strong song. I like it. Like you said, he wasn't crazy about that intro riff, but then once the drums kind of changed up what it was playing, it sounded better. But yeah, I mean, two pretty strong solo songs. What do you think? [00:48:26] Speaker A: I'm going to do the same seven on everything except for production. I give it eight. The production was really good so far. Eddie Kramer is doing an awesome job on this. Okay, so now we get to the next song, which has always been a little controversial, was a little weird for me because it's Hide your Heart, which is a Paul Stanley song, which I think is a Bonnie Tyler song too. [00:48:42] Speaker B: Yeah, somebody else definitely recorded this as well. Well, it was like. It was Holly Knight, Desmond Child, and Paul Stanley. [00:48:47] Speaker A: Bonnie Tyler recorded it first in 88. And then weirdly, I don't know how Ace got this song, why he ended up doing it. It's just very weird because this came out first and then Hot in the Shade came out right after this. [00:48:58] Speaker B: Did you, as a kiss fan in 89, hear these songs on both albums? Say, wait a second, what's going on here? Did you say to yourself, is this. [00:49:07] Speaker A: Mean that they're going to try to get back together? What's going on? It was a little weird. [00:49:10] Speaker B: It took a while. 96 was the reunion. [00:49:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Seven years before. It's kind of weird, though, don't you think? [00:49:17] Speaker B: I thought it was weird. And I remember one time saying, I like this version better. And somebody was like, oh, oh, you're the one. So now I really have to listen to it. I haven't heard the other one in a while. [00:49:25] Speaker A: I go back and forth about which one I like better. I think Paul Stanley sings it better. I don't think you're going to compare their two voices. I don't think this thing is bad. I think it's a little more raw than the Kiss version. Kiss version on Hide in the Shade is way produced. Where this, I think, is a little bit less. I think that helps. Aces part. That's not too slick. Let's do this. Here we go. Hide your heart. [00:49:49] Speaker C: Sam On A Streetcar Named Desire his fate was real she could have seen him coming Like a hundred other guys it was no big deal Rosa had a lover on the shady side of town he was king of the street she was his possession Like a jewel on his crown Johnny better run, better run better Hydra. [00:51:17] Speaker B: Let me know if this makes sense. This sounds more like Kiss than the Kiss version does. I hear Kiss here more than I hear kiss there. [00:51:25] Speaker A: You mean 70s kiss? [00:51:26] Speaker B: Yeah. If you told me that it was them doing this, maybe not the drums so much. I mean, the drums, obviously, it's a simple thing. I'm not saying. Oh, Peter couldn't even the bass sound to me sounds like Gene Simmons playing bass. And here I would say I've heard John Regan the most. And I really like what he's doing. It just sounds like Kiss playing this song. Even the production. [00:51:46] Speaker A: Well, Eddie Kramer's producing, so. Makes sense. [00:51:48] Speaker B: Yes. And I know obviously he's done stuff with them and I like it. I mean, I might be behind kind of liking this one better. And the one thing too, I noticed, I mean, you're going to read the lyrics. He doesn't do that. Tito. He was king of the streets, right? He doesn't say the name. [00:52:00] Speaker A: No, he changed it up. I'm not going to read the lyrics. You know why? Because we may have to do this on Hot in the Shade at one point. I would rather save the lyric deconstruction for that, but yeah, there are parts that you hear the Kiss thing in your head. That's not right. I never heard the Bonnie Tyler vers. [00:52:18] Speaker C: Oh yeah Johnny saw her riding on the street Call name design his fate was sealed she could see him coming Like a hundred other nights Twas no big deal Rosa had a lover on the shady side of town Tito he was cute in the sweetness she was his possession Like a too heart Better hold on tight Better say your pres. Cause there we desire Better hide your heart Cuz you playing with fire Aha. [00:53:22] Speaker A: I don't know what that is. I should probably listen to that. This was always weird to me. I just remember hearing this in my head and going, why would they do that? Why would he pick a song? Is he just trying to piss them off, saying, you, I know this song is coming out on your record, but my record is going to come out first and it's going to be on there. I don't know why he would choose this to do. It's very, very strange. [00:53:42] Speaker B: Do you remember at the time, did you remember hearing this first and then hearing it on Kiss, or did you kind of buy them? Do you remember? [00:53:49] Speaker A: I don't know which one I bought first because they came out really close together within like a week, I think, or a couple weeks. [00:53:54] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:53:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it was really close. This was the 13th of October. Hot in the Shade came out October 17th, four days later. I always thought it was weird. I probably bought the Ace Frehley record first because it was out first. Ace Fries, least the record. And it's Paul Stanley's song. What the hell? And then Hot in the Shake came out. It's the same song. What the is going on? And I did think, oh, maybe they're trying to get back together. That was in my head. Can't lie. I don't know which one I like better. I think there were parts of the Kiss one I like better, and there are parts of this one that I like better. Does that make sense? [00:54:23] Speaker B: It's a good song, I think. I mean, I've always liked this song. [00:54:27] Speaker A: Tells a story. And you're right, he doesn't use Tito. He uses Rose's name, but he doesn't use Tito's names. And it's played fairly similar. Obviously the solo parts at the beginning, similar. But Ace is Ace and Bruce Kulik's Bruce Kulik. It's just different. [00:54:38] Speaker B: I don't think it's too far apart either, though. To me, what Ace plays here is not, oh my God, that's Ace and oh my God, that's Bruce. There's still a similar vibe there. I was trying to pay attention. I've heard the Kiss one a lot more, honestly than this one. And I kind of remember Bruce plays, and I feel that Ace is still kind of in that vibe. [00:54:57] Speaker A: My assumption would be that Paul Stanley demoed this to death before he released two people to try to do it. Maybe his demo was so finished that it was easy to take those parts. That's the only thing I can think of. If it's so close, it was probably a very well done demo because I Think they were having demoitis back then where you would demo things so much they'll almost be as good as an actual produced record. And then you have a hard time changing things. It's produced so much that you want to make it like the demo. Does that make sense too. You can demo things too much and you lose everything of the song because you've done so much demo. I mean, I know there were lots of stuff from back earlier on where they didn't want to do as much demo because they didn't want to lose the spark that the song could have. [00:55:35] Speaker B: Hot and Shade is in infamous for having demos on it. Correct. [00:55:39] Speaker A: Demos, drum machines. If we ever get that record, there are parts of it that I really like and there's songs I really like. I know even Eric Carr hated that there was drum machine on there. It wasn't his favorite thing in the world to have happen. I don't blame him. He's a drummer. He doesn't want to have a drum machine replacing him, so. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:55:54] Speaker A: All right, let's continue. Here we go. [00:56:02] Speaker C: She looked him in the eye and said they couldn't meet again. You could see a trouble start the word went out that Rose is messing with someone it was on the street Tito looked for Johnny with a vengeance and a gun Johnny better run, better run, better hide your heart better hold on tight say your prayers, cause trouble tonight. [00:57:15] Speaker B: I mean, that part was completely different. Yeah, that's not in the Kiss version. No, no, he mentions Tito. [00:57:21] Speaker A: He does mention Tito. I heard that. [00:57:23] Speaker B: You see, when he says you could see the trouble start he speaks that. Paul Stanley does that same exact delivery. [00:57:28] Speaker A: Yeah, Paul does it more in a. You can see, you can hear the trouble star. [00:57:32] Speaker B: He speaks it. Yeah, it's not sung either. And Ace has more background vocals than the Kiss version. [00:57:38] Speaker A: It's not a bad version. It's just different. If you're listening to the Kiss version, you're used to that version. This sounds weird. I have to admit. It does sound a little weird to me because I'm so used to the Kiss version. [00:57:47] Speaker C: Mm. [00:57:48] Speaker B: It's funny because it's like a cover, but it's not a cover. Weird. Duya is a cover. And technically this is a cover as well. [00:57:56] Speaker A: I'm telling you, this was a big fuck you to them. He wanted to put this out beforehand. He knew this was coming out on their record somehow. He probably knows people still working for Kiss and he knew that this was going to be on their record. He was like, fuck, we're going to do it. [00:58:07] Speaker C: Too. [00:58:08] Speaker B: But he had to get the permission, though, right? I mean, it's Paul Stanley's song and Holly Knight and I guess I don't. [00:58:14] Speaker A: Know what happens when you put those things out like that for people to do. They're going to get credit for writing this. He's not going to make any money on this. But still, I think he did it just to fuck with them. That's my opinion. [00:58:23] Speaker B: Maybe in between this episode and the next one, we will do some investigation and try to find out. [00:58:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I'd be curious. [00:58:28] Speaker B: I mean, you would think we would know the story. I don't even know the story. Yeah, when it first came out, I also remember saying, oh, wait a second, they're sharing a song. What does this mean? That's what it was to me back then. And I haven't really paid attention to or read about actually what happened. And now that we're in it and we can investigate in between and find out. [00:58:48] Speaker A: Okay, let's continue. Here we go. [00:58:50] Speaker C: John is holding Rosa on a rooftop in the night as time stood still they couldn't hear him coming Till he had them both inside you could feel it chill A shot ran out like thunder and the blood was on her hands with nothing one it's all gonna has a dying of they finally understand Better hide your heart better hold on tight say your prayers cause us trouble tonight. [01:00:21] Speaker B: I could swear I hear Paul Stanley in the doo doo doo. It sounds like him. And I like that they change up the hey, hey, hey at the end. I like those. Hey, hey, hey. [01:00:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. They made a little change. The guitar ending part is definitely from the song because I think they play the melody from the chorus, whatever it is in there. And I like when he goes. You can feel the chill. What the is that? [01:00:41] Speaker B: But even too, when it's like a shot, ring now. But you know, the hit on the snare and everything, that's the same arrangement as Kiss 1. [01:00:48] Speaker A: I'm just gonna do sevens on this because I think it's a good song. I don't know if I'd like it better than the kids version. I don't hate it. I wouldn't turn it off when it comes on. Honey, that ain't no pistol. It's quintuple seven Nikki titty baby. [01:01:00] Speaker B: All right, I'll say seven and eight on the production. I'll go sevens and eight on the production. I like the production. I'll give the production credit on the vocal thing and everything. [01:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah, they did a good job. [01:01:10] Speaker B: I like the fullness of it. [01:01:12] Speaker A: All right, so this is the end of the first side. And this is Lost in limbo. [01:01:54] Speaker C: The party's over in the morning My head is spinning My appetite Walking dog much too loud Sh in my phone and get me out of this town Noises I hear I can't explain what those ne they hurt My brain Feeling the pain My body's numb from hell's kitchen to kingdom come that feeling happened not feeling sad not feeling anything good all I'm not in heaven I'm not in hell this must be live or can't you tell? Can't you tell me long? Lost in limbo we just lost Lost in limbo Baby, we just lost we lost in limbo Limbo with nowhere to. Sam. [01:04:02] Speaker B: What do you think about the arrangement there, where it does the verses, the chorus, and then it goes into a pretty big musical piece before it goes back into another verse? It's not really a solo. It's more different pieces of music. [01:04:15] Speaker A: I technically think that's the solo part because the song's not that long. I forgot that it did that. I forgot that it didn't come back. I was waiting, so when am I going to come in here? And then the solo happened. I'm like, I guess I'm keeping it going through. It's an interesting song. It feels very much like Fraley's Comet stuff. I don't know why. Especially the riff. That riff feels very frailly's Comet. [01:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah, it's more modern, but I. I feel that it still got a foot in the 78. [01:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:41] Speaker B: More than the Fraley's Comet stuff. I agree. And maybe because he was really writing on his own on this one. I mean, I know he has writing credits with other people, but obviously Fraley's Comet was more of, I guess, a band, Especially if you had, like, Todd Howard there and everything feels closer to 78 than anything he wrote on the previous two records. [01:04:58] Speaker A: It's still pretty good. [01:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's pretty good. [01:05:01] Speaker A: Did you remember this at all, or no? [01:05:02] Speaker B: I remember the title. I don't remember the song, though. [01:05:05] Speaker A: Well, you can see why people like this record so much. At least from the first side, it. [01:05:09] Speaker B: Hints back to 78 for me. [01:05:11] Speaker A: In all the original songs so far, you can feel parts of the original 78 solo record. And maybe it just took him a couple records to get through that, and maybe he just knew he had to kind of go back that way and he couldn't continue to do what he was doing. I know in the second record, he was really fucked Up. And that's why there's so much Todd Howard stuff. If Todd Howard hadn't written stuff, there wouldn't have been a record. Here are the lyrics. The party's over in the morning light My head is spinning Lost my appetite Barking dog much too loud Chuck him a bone and get me out of this town Voices I hear I can't explain what these neon lights, they hurt my brain Feeling no pain My body's numb from hell's kitchen to kingdom come not feeling happy not feeling sad not feeling anything good or bad I'm not in heaven I'm not in hell this must be limbo now can't you tell? Can't you tell? Come on. Lost in limbo we just lost we're lost in limbo we're just lost Lost in limbo Nowhere to go and then whatever that big solo break was, which I thought was cool. It's a different type of song. It's a weird arrangement. Was it three verses in a row, a chorus, and then solo? [01:06:07] Speaker B: It was cool, though. It was different, like you said. I wasn't sure. I was like, wait, is it going back? Oh, it's not going back. Okay. They went into a couple of bars of the riff again. Even then, after everything, it didn't go back into the verse. It went back into the main riff. [01:06:19] Speaker A: I like when they change it up a little bit and they make a different arrangement than a normal thing. He generally uses the same stuff over and over. But here, at least he changed it up enough. It's good. That's what he should be doing. [01:06:28] Speaker B: Yep. [01:06:29] Speaker A: All right, let's continue. Here we go. [01:06:35] Speaker C: The morning after such a bore can't even focus on the kissing floor Telephone, please don't breathe Want to forget about everything not feeling happen not feeling sad not feeling anything good or bad I'm not happy when I'm not in hell this must be liberal can't you tell? Can't you tell? Lost in liberal we just lost we just got lost now how you doing? [01:07:55] Speaker B: Was that Ace or Peter at the end? [01:07:58] Speaker A: I don't know. Is Peter on that one? I forget. What does it say? [01:08:01] Speaker B: I don't know. Whatever I'm looking at doesn't have Peter on anything, but I know he's on here. [01:08:06] Speaker A: He's on Hide your heart, Trouble walking, Too young to die and back to school. I don't think he's on there. [01:08:11] Speaker B: Okay, so that wasn't him. Never mind. It just kind of sounded like him. [01:08:14] Speaker A: I thought it was funny. He goes limbo, Laura, now. [01:08:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:19] Speaker A: Ace is that really kind of limbo we're talking about? His sense of humor comes through all this stuff. He was still, as far as his writing goes to me, irrespective of 10,000 volts, which was really a Steve Brown and him thing together. I think this is really where the songwriting is still really, really good. There's parts of the other records that are good after this. I think this is much more consistent. Just maybe he was just in his time. Can't really go back there. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to do this for. [01:08:45] Speaker B: I listened to it. Don't remember exactly when I would say, like, pre pandemic commuting and remember it being heavier. And I remember it's heavier and it's in your face more than the two before. Even though I definitely liked a lot of stuff on the ones before this. To me, even though Eddie Kramer produced the first one, it's slicker and probably intentionally slicker because of when it came out. And hey, let's maybe make it sound more like this, where this is just rock. Straight up. Raw, but good raw done well. Good levels and everything. Loud, but leveled off. [01:09:13] Speaker A: Well, I'm gonna read one verse and of course, course is the same. The morning after Such a bore can't even focus on the kitchen floor Telephone, please don't ring Want to forget about everything and it goes back into the rest of the stuff that it normally does. He used a little barking for the dog. It's just funny. Remember, this is only two years past Freely's comment because Frilly's comment was 87. Second sighting was 88 and this was 89. So he was releasing a record a year in three years. [01:09:40] Speaker B: Do you know where he was physically here? [01:09:43] Speaker A: I would assume he's up here. I don't know. Maybe he's straighter here again. I know on the. On the second one, he was really up. I'm not too sure where his sobriety was here. He sounds pretty focused. Well, I'm going to have you go first. [01:09:54] Speaker B: Oh, I mean, the lyrics, whatever. I'm going to say a five on the lyrics. They're fine. I'll say an eight on production again and seven on everything else. I mean, it's pretty good. This whole first side is. It's pretty solid. What do you think? [01:10:06] Speaker A: I'm going to do one up on the lyrics. I'm going to do six on the lyrics, seven on melody, seven on music, seven on arrangement, and eight on production. Production's been great. You can't ask for any More from Eddie Kramer. He's doing a really great job, just like he did on the 78 solo. Just like he did in Fredley's Comet. As long as your songs are good, he's going to make these things sound good. And I feel bad not talking about John Regan like you talk about Anton Fig all the time because he's so prominent. Without John Regan's very steady bass playing, it probably wouldn't be as good. You just don't hear it. It's not really in your face. He's not really in your face bass player. [01:10:37] Speaker B: But not only that, let alone bass playing. He has production credits and writing credits, right? [01:10:42] Speaker A: Yep. He had a lot to do with this. I think he was help running the fan club and I think there was a little falling out where Ace owed him him money. I think they got over that part of it. It wasn't always a easy ride for John Regan through this. It's a good record to do. I'm glad I picked this. [01:10:55] Speaker B: Yes. I will give you full credit. [01:10:58] Speaker A: This is the right record to do. It's really good. There's. This might be one song or two songs on the second side that I'm not too thrilled about. And I never really liked that much, even from back in the day. Overall, it's a strong record. If there's 10 songs on here, there's probably nine that I like. Unfortunately, it didn't really, really do very well. [01:11:14] Speaker B: I mean, in 89, hair metal was still big. [01:11:17] Speaker A: Yeah. He's not hair metal enough, though. That's the problem. [01:11:19] Speaker B: Maybe he just got lost. His had a resurgence with Forever. [01:11:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:23] Speaker B: In for that album. [01:11:24] Speaker A: Well, I'm glad we did this. I. I think there's going to be a lot more good stuff on the second side. I know you weren't too sure whether or not we should do something else or do this, but I think this is the right one. [01:11:33] Speaker B: I'm cool with this. Definitely two songs on the second side. I know for sure. I like two. I don't remember and I don't remember the instrumental. To me, it's always the wheel. Just like we did with Ozzy. It's like, all right, wheel, wheel, wheel. I'm definitely cool with this. I'm glad it's. I mean, it's a pretty strong first side. I mean, I think all the songs would make a playlist so far. Yeah, absolutely. [01:11:50] Speaker A: They're good. He did a really good job on this. He was on the ball here. Whether he. I don't know what his sobriety was like, but he was on the ball. As far as his musical stuff goes, I think he came off the second one where it wasn't as good and he didn't have a lot to do with it because he was really up and he knuckled down. And those lyrics aren't horribly bad. His vocals are pretty strong, his guitar players playing strong. I think it's a good record. I didn't want to do a Kiss record because I'd rather those come up spontaneously. I didn't want to do 78 solo because we could do that, because technically it's a solo record, but it's still kiss. [01:12:20] Speaker B: And the 78 is like infamous, right? Oh, the 78 album. So that's why I said we could do that one. But when you said Trouble Walking, I said I'd rather do Trouble Walking. It's something different. Everybody knows about the 78, even on the podcast and everything. A lot of people definitely like this one. [01:12:35] Speaker A: It's a lot of people's number one, Even over Fraley's Comet, it's a little heavier. It's not as slick sounding. Although there's a bunch, bunches of songs. We did the first Friday's comedy. There's lots of good songs on that record. [01:12:44] Speaker B: And it's more Ace. [01:12:45] Speaker A: Yes, to me, this is more Ace. He sings every song on the side, whereas in Fraley's Comedy, there's a couple songs on each side he doesn't sing. All right, why don't you do your thing? [01:12:54] Speaker B: We are part of the Deep Dive Podcast Network and the Boneless Podcast Network. [01:12:59] Speaker A: Boneless, you know, like those chicken wings without the bone. [01:13:02] Speaker B: Great bunch of guys on both sides because they're similar guys on both sides. So if you want individual podcasts about bands like Rush, Tom Petty, right? He, Zeppelin, Queen, you name it. It's probably on either or both. So definitely check them out. And Mark, where can they find this on the Interwebs? [01:13:18] Speaker A: Rocker Lipod on all the social media. Rockwelletpodcast.com do the merch, put a new bets on there, shoot us an email, tell us an album we can put on the list. You know what to do. Put us on your auto download so you get our episodes every week and rate us 5 stars wherever you do your podcast rating because that helps us game the algorithm and have more people to listen to us, which is awesome. Next week we get to finish our tribute to Ace Fry. And I'm glad this is a positive thing. We're not going to get any more music from him, so his music is going to last for longer than we're going to be here, I'm pretty sure. So his influence goes through every guitar player from the 70s into the 90s, and probably even these days. I'm sure there are new guitar players that listening to Kiss or listening to Ace Frehling going, wow, I could do that. He can do it. I can do it. [01:14:01] Speaker B: All anyone has to do is Google Ace Fraley and look at the tributes. [01:14:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it's everywhere. YouTube, every. There's so many people. I mean, I know Steve Vai had good things to say. Lots of people had good things to say. People you wouldn't think Eddie Trunk had. Joe Bonamassa was on there saying how much he liked Ace Fraley. So there you go. [01:14:18] Speaker B: Hey, Pearl Jam posted. There's a live version of. I forgot what song it is. Black Diamond. [01:14:23] Speaker C: Oh, that. [01:14:23] Speaker B: They do it somewhere. [01:14:24] Speaker A: All right, we will see you next week. [01:14:27] Speaker C: Ciao. [01:14:27] Speaker B: Ciao, Curly. [01:14:28] Speaker A: Later, Curly. [01:14:29] Speaker C: Beethoven's Fifth, Hamilton.