Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: This is our musical reaction breakdown and commentary analysis of this song. Under Fair Use, we intend no copyright infringement and this is not a replacement for listening to the artist's music. The content made available on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only, notwithstanding a copyright owner's rights under the Copyright Act. Section 107 of the Copyright act allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders for purposes such as education, criticism, comment, news, reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
These so called fair uses are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. Now onto the Roc Roulette Podcast.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Enjoy.
Foreign.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of rock roulette podcast. That's right, the crazy ass podcast. It took over 1, 900 albums. Stuck them in a list, stuck them in a wheel. Every other week we spin the wheel. She picks a record for us and we go through her track by track. We talk about the music, the lyrics, the production, the arrangement and the melody. And we give it scores. Just a bunch of friends who love music Want to do a podcast? Everyone who takes this trip of discovery and rediscovery with us, we really want to thank you. Spread the word and talk to us. Tell us what you like, what you don't like. Maybe an album you want us to go over or even single for the baby wheel that we always talk about in the new B section. Tonight we are a duo again. We have Mark. Oh hi Mark.
[00:01:50] Speaker C: What's up guys?
[00:01:51] Speaker A: And I'm sad. Ciao Buena. Last week we wrapped up White Line's third release, Big Game, and based on what you said, Mark, where they had to write the songs in two weeks, I think let's say half the album was fleshed out and I think the part that was fleshed out was pretty good. I think I said it last time. This would have made a pretty damn good ep.
The songs that weren't fleshed out to me sounded rushed. Whether or not those were the songs that were rushed, I don't know. I don't know the whole story, but I do feel that there is a distinct difference between certain songs and other songs. What do you think?
[00:02:23] Speaker C: I think I agree. I think about half the album's okay. I've turned my page on his guitar playing being just a copycat, so that was good for me. I would have done that years ago, but it was good to hear a record and to go, okay, he has a style. I like him. Some choruses that should have been double weren't and it felt like it was a little Bit of rush going on, but two weeks to write. I don't know how long the recording took, but two weeks to write. That's pretty good feat, actually, in that time frame.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we mentioned that we used to work two, three weeks on a song. One song.
And we. We weren't even pressed to record anything, any record. We weren't White Lion. We were nobody. That is quick. But we know the story. The record company wants you in there. They had massive hit on the album before. You want to capitalize on that? They kept them in the game. They were able to make at least one more album before everything changed over, but definitely helped them a little bit. And yep, I think they're all pretty musicians, but obviously Vito brought us a standout. And like you said, having heard him and you place him in another band, let's say he was in a super group and you didn't know who was in there. I think you would probably say, hey, that guy sounds like Rito Brada. He did enough to have his own style, but also tap into his influences. We get to spin the Big Wheel again, which is always exciting. But before Spin the Big Wheel, we spin the Baby Wheel in the new Best section. And anybody tuning in first time, that's where we kind of pick singles that have come out within the last year, year and a half, and we get to listen to it and we talk about that. So, Mark, whenever you are read, spin the Baby Wheel In a world where new music is not easy to find.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Welcome to New Bets.
[00:03:59] Speaker C: Okay, here's the new Bets wheel.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Dan Byrne, she's the Devil. I'm sure you know all about this one, right, Mark?
[00:04:19] Speaker C: Again, I stick them on the wheel. I don't know what I'm looking for. I listen maybe to five seconds. I decide whether I want to put it on there or not. And then I never listen to it again. So I'm sure I listen to it. I don't know what it is, but that's the fun of this. No clue.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Pretty sure he's British.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: Okay. I don't know if that's good or bad, but we'll see.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Let's check it out.
[00:04:36] Speaker C: Yep, this is Dan Byrne. She's the devil.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: You got blood on your teeth. And I cannot breathe no more.
So show me how to run and I'll show show you how to roll.
Cause she's the devil.
She's my disease.
With her long blonde hair and a little red dress. She can bring me to my knees. Kiss the fire at 17 she's like a Farmer grandma I don't give her no time to breathe.
She can do what she wants with
[00:05:45] Speaker C: her little red horns and I'll never look back.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Cause she's a devil.
You ain't scared, I know praise but just you're a goddamn soul.
And you got a taste of me before you drag me down.
Cuz she's the devil, she's hard to please.
Wear a long blond hair and a little red dress. She can bring me to my knees. Cast a fire at 17.
She's like a foreign woman. I won't give her no time to breathe.
She can do what she wants in the little red horns and I never look back again. Cause she's a devil. So come and tell me something while your arm my mind.
Oh I knew you're trouble but I can't tell why.
You can drag me down, you can make me bleed.
Oh I like a warning so come and dance with me.
With a long blonde hair and a little red dress. She can bring me to my knees. A cast of fire at 17.
She's like a farmland wallet. I won't give her no time to breathe. No time to breathe. Case Sapphire.
She's hard to please While it was going all night. That she can give a little time to me Cause she's successful.
Is a devil.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah, not bad. Honestly, I think this stuff came out in the hair metal days because there were some bands that kind of sounded like this who probably would have really eaten it up. But, yeah, not bad. What do you think? I like the verses a lot.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: I don't know about the chorus, though. I don't like that it drops down like energy so high and then it just kind of drops down. That's the only thing I don't like. Guitar playing is pretty good. I like the outro solo better than the main solo, tell you the truth. He has a good voice.
[00:08:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: The snare drum sounds like a tom.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: It is what the it is.
But there's. There's too much music with that production. If I don't get past that, then I won't like anything. I just tell myself I wish it was produced differently. Like you said, the snare. The snare is really what gets to that snare. It's loud because the song is very loud and everything is loud. It's almost okayer. Yes. I'm making up a word, if that makes any sense. And in this thing, by the time the song was over, I learned to ignore it, which I've had to do with anything that I like that has the style, production, Especially heavy music.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: But I mean.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, overall it's pretty good. My bad.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I couldn't get over the snare and that sound. Like a snare.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I've had to do it.
[00:09:19] Speaker C: I don't know why. Why can't they just record drums and leave the snare? Why they have to replace it with all these other sounds? Why? I don't understand them. Can we just get a good drum sound and everyone have a drum sound? That's them.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: I think it's starting to change though, because I've heard some newer releases, especially like some heavier stuff, and this production is starting to phase out. If you listen to stuff like Shoegaze, Dreampa, whatever stuff, they don't use this at all. It's really, you know, like the rock and metal, whatever. But I've heard some more recent stuff and I think it's starting to finally phase out this production. Some of the newer and upcoming people are phasing it out. I don'. I don't think it's going to be around too, too much longer, honestly.
[00:09:53] Speaker C: I can't wait for that to happen. It's kind of the change from the 80s into the 90s. The drums went back to being drums. There was some good 80s drum sounds and some. Even the big stuff sounded okay. But you got some stuff where that gated reverb thing on the snare, it was just too much. And you got into the 90s, you were like, oh, thank God. Drums. Yeah, drums are back.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: Well, let us know if you like it or you don't like it. Hit us up on social media and let's rubber stamp this.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: In a world where new is not easy to find.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Welcome to New Bets.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: As always. I will ask you, what do you think she will pick? Are you looking for anything specific?
[00:10:40] Speaker C: I don't know. It's hard to say what I want. I had the 80s, so that's okay. I would like maybe a 70s band, like we said before, a band we know, but an album we don't. I think that's the move from now on.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah. That is interesting. Without a doubt. That is definitely interesting. Yeah. I'm thinking classic rock. Yeah, Sabbath, obviously it's classic rock. I'm talking maybe classic rock in its element, not the opposite, but whatever. She's gonna do what she wants to do anyway, so.
[00:11:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it's probably gonna be a total opposite anyway.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:11:11] Speaker C: Okay, here's the wheel.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: Okay. Clearly the wheel is with us. We go from White lion to White Tiger. Oh, my God, that's hysterical.
[00:11:41] Speaker C: We did not do this. We did not make this.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: No. If we were smart enough, we would have said, hey, let's do another duo. We go from one white feline to another white feline.
But no, the wheel did it for us. This is so funny.
[00:11:54] Speaker C: I really can't believe this. I put this on here. Never expecting this would come up.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: No. And they only have one album, right?
[00:12:00] Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. No, they have a live record. Live in Anaheim, 1987. Oh, well, this is 1986. This is Mark St. John I E. Mark Norton, who was in Kiss only for one record. On Animal Eyes he got an arthritic condition, couldn't play. And then Bruce Kulik took over. And then I think he played two and a half shows, something like that total. And then. Then Bruce Kulik took over and then he was done. And then he formed this. And this is with him, his brother, which is Michael Norton, David Donato on lead vocals and Brian James Fox on drums.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: I remember in that Kiss and sell book that. I think it was in that book where they said he was too showy and that's why they got rid of him right away.
[00:12:40] Speaker C: He was doing a little bit of showmanship. Bruce Kulik recently had some interview saying that he was trying to put a big show on in that time in Kiss. You really can't do that if you're just a hired guy. If you try to upstage Paul Stanley, Gene Simmons going to go over well for you?
[00:12:54] Speaker A: It definitely didn't go over well, but
[00:12:56] Speaker C: he did have the arthritic condition and he did have a problem, but that went away and I think it was okay by the time they started touring. It's just he wasn't the right fit. I have to say I've listened back to Animal Eyes and I'm not too upset about the guitar work on there. I know back in the day I didn't like it as much, but I've had a. A new affection for his guitar playing. Even though it does happen to be very like be in a beehive sometimes. But it's not all bad though.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: But didn't they make him re record his stuff? Or am I wrong?
[00:13:22] Speaker C: They would make him go back and. All right, now play that again. Tell them I can't play it again. I don't know how to do it again. This is their thing. He was supposedly a one take guitar player. He played it once and he couldn't play it back. I don't know if that's true. I mean, history is told by them. So I don't know. I feel bad for him because he literally was in there for like, a hot second. Yeah, he was out.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Well, let's see. I remember listening to this once on a commute. I don't remember. I don't remember liking it. Who knows? I'm incredibly curious.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: I've never listened to this. I have no clue what this is going to be like. From what I can gather, there's no lyrics here for anything. That saves me reading lyrics.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: I can't imagine where my missing A lot of poetry here.
[00:13:58] Speaker C: No, I don't think so. And the only files I can find to play of this. It's not on streaming is on YouTube. Take it for a grain of salt, but this sounds like everyone.
All right, here we go. This is White Tiger with rock warrior.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Sam.
It's time to take nothing left to deal Strike a battle we're on the rise Forced to win here A battle cry we came to win Fight till the end can't speak for the other guy Until I die we can do it without glorious rock Glorious, Glorious rock Glorious greatest battlefield we don't give up.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: I feel that the beginning has a little bit of that mid-80s kiss vibe. I don't like that solo thing he plays in the beginning. I don't think the verse is terrible or the beginning of the chorus. I'm not crazy about the pre chorus or the second part. Like the chorus. The production's not bad overall, even though that guitar sound, whatever solo you think in the beginning was kind of weird.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: That's the same guitar sound he had on Animal Eyes. That lead guitar sound.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a bit odd.
[00:16:25] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. Vinnie Vincent had a very similar.
Prior to that. It's a very mid push to like, very. A lot of mids in his sound. And it makes it sound like that, I think, a little bit. I thought the intro was pretty decent. The verse is okay, of course, and pre chorus, not great. Better than I thought, though. I thought it was gonna be worse.
It still could get worse.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: What do you think of his voice?
[00:16:44] Speaker C: It's weird. I know he tried to join Black Sabbath and he did some demos with them, and I can hear a little bit of that. It's much more of a 70s voice than it is an 80s voice. Does that make sense?
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I feel like he sounds German, too. I get some German vibes from him.
[00:16:57] Speaker C: I don't know if he is or not.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: I don't.
[00:17:00] Speaker C: Only person who's alive is a drummer. Everyone else is dead.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Crazy.
[00:17:02] Speaker C: I know. All right, let's continue let's see how it goes.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: We don't give up we don't quit I can't hold back now this is it I turn the cheek now to step aside One turn again the Lord all pride we came to win Fight till the end I can't speak for the other guy until I die we can do it.
Play this battlefield electrical weapon Let us shield.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah, Very Vinnie Vincent sounding, I think. I didn't like the solo. Me personally, I don't like the sou of it. I don't like the guitar tone in there. It doesn't match the rest of the production. A lot of notes.
It's not about the song. Do I feel it's completely out of place? No. To me, there's no feel in that solo.
[00:19:42] Speaker C: It's so funny. Hearing Veto Bra last week and then hearing this, you could tell how much better of a guitar player Vita Br is. When you hear this, you're like, wow, this is just notes.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Just
[00:19:53] Speaker C: worse than Animal Eyes. Way worse.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:56] Speaker C: And I never liked that tone. I didn't like when Vinnie Vincent had that tone. I don't like her. I didn't particularly like it on the Kiss record either.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: It's so odd. The volume is lower than the rest of the song. And like you said, I guess if it's just the mids. Even if it was recorded differently, it might sound better. And I guess you say to yourself, if you can do that stuff, I don't think every solo is going to be like this. Especially if you said going back to Animalize, you appreciated some of the guitar playing. So this is probably first song. Hey, let me.
[00:20:26] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Of little faith. There's going to be more of this a little bit.
I think the reason why I appreciate some of the solos on Animal Eyes is because he was almost told what to play.
Tried to be pushed in a direction where here, similar to the Vinnie Vincent solo record, there is no one telling him what to do. And I don't think in that situation or in this situation, it's good. And I'm not sure this guy's voice can handle what they're trying to do. Again, I am surprised it's as good as it is. But the one part I forgot to say is that in between the verse and the chorus, I couldn't tell when the chorus ended. That's. I didn't stop it the first time. I didn't know when the chorus was coming up and I didn't know when the chorus went out.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah, actually, I didn't know it this time either. Because what I thought was the verse was actually the end of the chorus.
I know they didn't have a big thing in between.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: They had nothing in between. Let's finish it out. Here we go.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Fight till the end.
Can't speak for the other guy.
We can do it, Glory.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: I like that end solo better than the middle. Soto. It's not terrible, though. It's not a terrible song overall. I think we did a little headbagging to this. And maybe in. In 86, I'm very surpr.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: Could be worse. The second solo was definitely better.
So he can do that stuff when he wants to.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: I'm sure he can, and I hope he does. I know it was kind of a show for him. His life was a bit of a show. Especially on his way out.
[00:23:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, go first.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: I'm gonna go fives across right now. I think. Middle of the road. Not terrible. I wasn't paying 100% to the lyrics. I mean, it was one of those fist pumping rock and roll things, which is. Yeah, it's cool.
Production wasn't terrible. I mean, I was thinking of six in production, but just the guitar tone and the solo and whatever I didn't like, like. I'm gonna keep it at A5 and see where it goes from there. What do you think?
[00:23:32] Speaker C: I'm doing the exact same thing. Keep it at fives. I'm not sure what it's gonna be. I'm surprised that some of it is decent. I've never listened to this. I would have figured he was in Kiss. I would at least try to listen to it. I don't know where I would have gotten this in 86. It wasn't on a big label. Who knows where it was even distributed? I've never seen this. I'm looking at the COVID right now. I've never seen this cover.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: I knew who they were before I knew who he was because my cousin, who had an amazing metal album collection head, I knew exactly of the band. I didn't know that it was him, though.
[00:24:02] Speaker C: Yeah, that's crazy.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: I bet you he still has it.
[00:24:04] Speaker C: Oh, he probably still does. You probably can never find this thing anyway.
All right, next song is Love Hate.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: When I don't know where you came from Gotta beam in your eye and your hand on a gun and I can tell what happened to you you been in chase I've been confused so confused not someone I never knew what happened to you?
Love, fate it's got to be the fine line that faith can trust it all the Time.
Love it. Your heart is on the line, but your rub on the extra time.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: This feels as if we were listening to a compilation and this was a different band. His voice sounds different. The production is different. Obviously, the style is different. The beginning reminded me a little bit of, like, in a big country. I don't know too much about this one.
[00:25:50] Speaker C: I don't think it's horrible. I don't like the drum beat. I think that's really what's throwing me off. I don't know if it matches the actual riff. It definitely sounds way different than the
[00:25:57] Speaker A: first one, which is not a bad thing, per se.
[00:26:00] Speaker C: No, I don't know about his voice, though.
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah. He reminds me of someone. I'm trying to put my finger on who it reminds me of. Maybe if I listen to it more, I'll think about it. Or I'll get it.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: Oh, you're gonna listen to it more.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: I know.
[00:26:12] Speaker C: Here it goes. Oh. Before I start playing it, they did that thing again where I couldn't tell when the chorus ended in the verse started again. They need a little bit of a break. Yeah, the songs are long, too. The songs are over five minutes. I don't think a break is a problem.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: No, do a little solo. He's a guitar player producing it, right?
[00:26:27] Speaker C: Yeah, producing it, too. Or at least partially, anyway. All right, let's continue. Here we go.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: You can spin the wheels. Gonna spend the night?
Don't you know that it'll change a thing? You keep giving it up and you won't ever take.
Can't you see that you over the edge? You burn all your friends? You're out of your head, your head nothing left to be said it's your time to kill.
Love, hate, it's got to be a mindline that fate can trust it all the time.
Love, hate. Your heart is on the line but your arm on the head.
My face has got to pick up my line.
My face can't trust it all the time.
Love face, your heart is on the line but your armor is the sky.
Love is the strength.
I know, I know.
Deep inside.
Ram.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: I like the beginning of this. And that's it.
I went off into that thing again. I'm just not feeling his solos. I'm not feeling the song, honestly.
[00:29:05] Speaker C: I told you it was coming. I told you he couldn't hold back.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it started okay.
[00:29:09] Speaker C: I know. That's what happens. Always starts okay, then devolves into.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: I gotta tell you, though, in 86, I may have said, listen, at one point, I thought this was Solo in Boys Are Gonna Rock was the greatest soul of the 80s. And then, like, I go back and listen to it, I'm like, maybe not.
[00:29:26] Speaker C: No, it needs some editing. Someone needs to edit something somewhere. This is where his guitar playing is a hundred percent the way that Gene Simmons said it sounded like the beginning's good and he can do other stuff. He just gets caught into that thing. A lot of tremolo bar. I think there was some tapping him there. I'm pretty positive. Just too much of the 80s stuff. Again, this is a guy who really could be in any of the bands that all sounded like this. And you wouldn't know that he changed.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: But let me ask you, when did you start playing guit guitar? Was it 86? 87? Around that time.
[00:29:54] Speaker C: 86, 87.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: As a guitar player, if you're hearing this for the first time, do you think you're impressed by this?
[00:29:59] Speaker C: I'm always impressed by the technicality of being able to play that fast. It wasn't something that always drew me in. I liked fast guitar playing, but it had to be the right kind of fast guitar playing. Eddie Van Halen had fast guitar playing. And there were other people that I'd liked had fast guitar playing. I like Bruce Kulik's guitar playing on the Kiss stuff. And he had some fast stuff that was going on there. There's always melody going on. There's melodic things going on.
Stuff tended to be. When it was like this, I didn't like it. And the same thing with Vinnie Vincent. I think if we ever get Lick It Up, I like his playing on that. I think he was reigned in. He was told what to play or at least given a direction. And he did a really good job when he was left to his own devices. You hear this. I mean, I think Vinnie Vincent's worse than this. Personally, this is bad, but I think it's worse.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, in 86, we had George lynch, we had Engvay. I mean, they played fast. There were melodies attached to what they were playing. That's the thing. I don't feel there's any melody to the solo.
[00:30:51] Speaker C: They're also better guitar players. I mean, technically, he's a good guitar player. But that doesn't mean you're a good guitar player. As far as the song goes, he's not playing for the song here. At least not the second half of it anyway.
He's playing fast and that's his style and that's what he did. But the problem was he could never reproduce it. So if you had to go in back and double something or do whatever. He couldn't go back and do that. He says, I play it one time. I mean, again, that's their side of the story. I've never heard his side of the story, so I don't know. So I'm assuming that's correct. But I could be wrong. But when you hear this, you're like, okay, this is what would have happened if no one was in there telling him, no, do it again because it doesn't sound right. Or stop playing so fast here or do some melodic things there. I think he needed some direction. He's an untalented guitar player.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: What I was going to say is if you're just playing notes, to play notes. Maybe that's why I couldn't remember what he played. Probably if there wasn't something thought out and melodic, it's probably harder to remember.
[00:31:40] Speaker C: Some people could do that. I think if you asked Paul Gilbert to play the same thing, he played twice. He played before he could do it, but he's a better guitar player. Again, is anything really badly played played? No, I mean, everything's sort of kind of fine. I just don't know if the song's any good.
And I can't really tell you about the lyrics either. I'm trying to listen to the lyrics.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm half ass paying attention.
[00:31:59] Speaker C: I don't think they're horrible.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Horrible.
[00:32:01] Speaker C: I don't think they're super cheesy, but I don't think they're great either. All right, let's continue. Here we go.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Time. Where I don't know where baby you came from Got a gaming your eye and your hand on a gun I can't tell what happened to you and you better change I've been feel so confused that's what I never knew what happened to you.
Laugh, hate, it's got to be a fine night that faith can trust it all the time Laugh, hate, your heart is on the line but your mama think it's the time Laugh, hate, it's got to be a fine line Laugh, faith can trust it all the time Laugh, hate, your heart is on the line but your mom only gets your money, baby.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: I like that little guitar part at the end. I also like the little breakdown before the chorus.
[00:34:10] Speaker C: The halftime part. I like the halftime part.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that part.
[00:34:14] Speaker C: I don't know what to do with this. It's not as good as the first song.
[00:34:17] Speaker A: I could tell you what I was going to do.
[00:34:19] Speaker C: Oh, you do yours then Go ahead.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: Was going to do fours across.
[00:34:21] Speaker C: This time I was going to do fours across. That chorus part. Every time I hear it, the fine line. When I hear the next line, I want it to be the time. I'm. I'm.
If that's what I hear every time it comes up. But it doesn't do that. I'm not saying I'm right either. I just don't think it's very good.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: It's just odd. I mean, it's cool that it was different from the first. The voice sounded different. The production sounded different. The solo definitely didn't sound different. That was a bit odd.
[00:34:47] Speaker C: His voice sounds like it's struggling, especially on the higher end. And then at the end, did he have to come back in with the chorus? It should have just faded out.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Yeah, they should have just faded out.
[00:34:55] Speaker C: There's only four songs on this first side. Maybe they're trying to stretch songs out and making them longer.
[00:34:59] Speaker A: I don't know. Maybe.
[00:35:00] Speaker C: All right, here we go. Third song. Bad time coming.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Sam, I know you love for me still I always think about you and I know that it's wrong to me When I just can't live without you when we go against the time can't go away Just did something to me.
Now I really feel about you.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: I would say this is the worst one so far. And the production is hot again. I feel like the first one is better produced than these last two.
[00:36:50] Speaker C: Yeah. From what I was reading, they said the songwriting was okay, but the production really suffered. Now, remember, we're listening to this on YouTube, so there's going to be some shittiness involved here, but there's definitely a downgrade. And whatever was happening from even the
[00:37:02] Speaker A: last song, when he comes in with some of the guitar parts, they come in so loud. It happened even in the last song, which is fine. He's producing it. I understand. It's not. Oh, my God. You notice it so much.
He kind of did this little dive bomb thing in here.
[00:37:18] Speaker C: Yeah. I feel that the whole guitar feels like it's recorded five feet away from everything. And then it doesn't feel like it's miked right up close. Feels like all the way back, which is fine. You can blend those two things together. But this doesn't sound great. I don't like the tone nor the recording of this at all. Even the bass sounds weird.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: If anybody pays attention to this podcast at all and you're hearing this, please let us know if you know of a better version where you're saying, yeah, the version you're Listening to isn't as clear as something I've heard. And it sounds better.
[00:37:44] Speaker C: There's one comment in the YouTube thing that says, recorded by a kindergartner on a Fisher Price toy.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Maybe it's not us, then.
[00:37:51] Speaker C: That sums the whole thing up right there.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Holy moly. Wow.
[00:37:55] Speaker C: It was promising at the beginning. And then look what's happens. It's evolved.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: It's time to roll off the edge here.
[00:38:01] Speaker C: Just a little bit.
All right, let's do this. Here we.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: You can't be.
When you're going get stuff.
You don't.
Come without warning.
You make a change, you make believe.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: I'll let you go first this time.
[00:39:55] Speaker C: That was better than the last solo. That's all I can say.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: I was gonna say that. Let me see if he agrees with me. I think that might be the best solo so far.
[00:40:02] Speaker C: It was also the shortest the whole song sounds. It was recorded in a tin can.
[00:40:07] Speaker A: Yeah. He's got so much reverb on the vocals.
[00:40:10] Speaker C: Everything. The drums, the bass. It all sounds like it was recorded in the big fan cave. Lots of reverb everywhere.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: The bass playing's actually been pretty good. And the drumming isn't bad either. The musicianship on whatever's going on underneath is not terrible.
[00:40:23] Speaker C: And they're doing that thing again where they come out of the chorus and you can't tell that the verse started. I'm starting to get used to it. And here's the funny part. We complained about the White lion stuff where the choruses were doubled up. I'm almost appreciating the White lion stuff now after hearing this. Yeah, this is way leagues underneath that. And a lot of that stuff wasn't great. There's a reason why no one listened to this. You got to the first song, you were like, okay, this is not so bad. And now it's just taking a nose dive. Maybe the second side can save this. I don't know.
[00:40:48] Speaker A: Except the worst we've heard on here.
[00:40:50] Speaker C: Pretty close, though.
It is pretty close. What else could be worse than this? Tiger Tales.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: I'd have to go back and look at our episodes.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: I don't think we've had anything this bad. Bad that's already gotten fours. This is probably gonna get threes.
[00:41:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:03] Speaker C: Because this is worse than the last one. It just keeps getting worse.
[00:41:05] Speaker A: I'm debating. I don't dislike it as much the second time around as I did the first.
[00:41:10] Speaker C: When the times get tough, the tough get going.
[00:41:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:13] Speaker C: That's all you have to say. Let's continue.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: How I really feel about you.
Me I really feel about you.
Sam.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: Michael James Jackson. Did he recommend Vinnie Vincent and Mark St. John to kiss? Was it just one of them?
[00:43:50] Speaker C: I don't think he recommended anybody.
[00:43:51] Speaker A: Who am I thinking of? Somebody in guitar lore recommended Jackson. Grover Jackson. Jackson. Who made Jackson guitars, right?
[00:43:59] Speaker C: Correct. That was Mark St. John. Mark St. John.
[00:44:01] Speaker A: He probably said, listen, this guy sounds exactly like Vinnie Vincent. Winning solos, so people won't notice the difference. Cuz, I mean, this is straight up. Even that solo at the end.
[00:44:09] Speaker C: But I gotta say though, that's probably the best guitar playing solo wise in the whole three songs so far.
[00:44:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it had a little bit of feel to it.
[00:44:16] Speaker C: Do you want me to go first?
[00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm just gonna go threes across. I think I'm going threes across. Do you want to go then?
[00:44:23] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: There's no one else to go. You have to go.
[00:44:26] Speaker C: Three on the lyrics, four in the melody, four in the music, four on the arrangement, one on production. If I could give it a zero, I would give it. I could give it a zero, but I'm gonna give it one because there's actually sound other than that, it's just horribly recorded.
[00:44:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it was really badly recorded.
[00:44:41] Speaker C: All right, side one is over. This is Runaway.
[00:44:53] Speaker B: Oh, oh yeah oh it's a hard time Just making up your mind oh, you trying so hard, so hard to find answers to the questions in your mind it makes you want to cry.
Why don't you run away Let your spirit fly Run away, run away be.
[00:45:48] Speaker A: I think this is the best since the first. But I don't like that chorus at all. I don't mind the verse. The production is very muffled and I think it's having trouble picking up some of that double bass stuff. But I do think it's the best since the first.
[00:45:59] Speaker C: It's different than the production on the last one, which just sounded like it was in a big cave. This time you're right. It sounds like someone put a blanket over it and you're trying to listen to the blanket.
[00:46:07] Speaker A: It's just so weird, man. I wonder if it is the YouTube. The fact that the production would be so different. I wonder if it's recorded different places. It's just.
[00:46:16] Speaker C: All I can tell you is that they said that the production was a problem. It could be just what it is. Maybe some. It's YouTube. Some of it's that. Who knows? I didn't have the original album to tell you that it sounded any better because it sounded just like this. I only could take it from what it is right now. So I'm gonna take it for what it is. But then why would the first song not sound that way then?
[00:46:32] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. The production of the first was definitely the best one. Do I have stuff on vinyl from the mid-80s that sounds like this? Yes. Some of the heavier stuff, admittedly not like the Metallic, but some unknown. I can't think of specifics. But some heavier stuff that I have from the mid-80s, maybe, when they're still figuring out how to really produce something like that, that's what it reminds me of.
[00:46:51] Speaker C: But I do think songwriting and arrangement wise, it's a better song than the last two. But the production kills it. Yeah, it's pretty bad right here we.
[00:47:06] Speaker B: Flight line.
But now I knowing why now it's.
Really do. Should you just get up and fight?
Why don't you run away Let your spirit fly Run away run away before.
[00:48:15] Speaker A: That's all wrote the Edge, it almost went off the rails for me. But I think he reined it in. I think for this kind of song, it actually worked. He. He didn't go too far into that space.
What do you think?
[00:48:28] Speaker C: 100% agree. I think it could have went over the edge, but it didn't. But it is very Vinnie Vincent sounding. I didn't really put those two things together. So right now it's like Vinnie Vincent revisited. It was a time, though.
[00:48:39] Speaker A: But is that how you competed? When KISS got him, didn't they get him because they wanted a hot shot guitar player?
[00:48:46] Speaker C: Yes, sir. Realistically, Bruce Kulik's thing was be competitive with everybody. You still need to do that stuff. So he even had to play stuff that was a little out of his element. I think he did a better job at it. I think he was able to fuse the melody with the fast playing a little bit better than him. This stuff is definitely Vinnie Vincent esque. Vinnie Vincent didn't play bad stuff. I think the stuff that's on the KISS stuff is. Isn't bad. And he was a better songwriter too, which also helped him. This song's not that bad.
[00:49:12] Speaker A: It's the best one since. Since the first one.
[00:49:14] Speaker C: All right.
[00:49:23] Speaker B: Oh, what you're hoping to find maybe beside Run away.
Why don't you run away Let your spirit fly Run away, Run away before the in your life Run away why don't you run away?
Let your spirit fly Run away, run away before losing your mind Run away.
Sam.
Why don't you run away?
Why don't you run away?
Why don't you run away Just give it why don't you run away Run away Don't you run away why don't you run away and just feel it why don't you run away Let your spirit fly Run away, run away before losing your mind Run away.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: They must have loved that chorus.
I wish it had ended after that ending solo. To me, that's when you end it. If you're going to come in with that big of a solo at the end and then go back to the chorus. I don't like that kind of arrangement because the chorus was my least favorite part of the song. I like the rest of it. I thought it was all right.
[00:52:12] Speaker C: I think that needed to be a three minute song, not a five or six minute song. It's too long and they could have rearranged parts of it. There was that other part they put in. It was pretty cool.
[00:52:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that too.
[00:52:22] Speaker C: They would have moved that into the first part. I think that would have been better.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: I like that part too. That little breakdown.
[00:52:26] Speaker C: I'll go first. I'm going to say fives for lyrics. Melody, musicianship, arrangement. I'm going to say four because I don't like the way it ended. I don't like that they came back. I don't like that it was that long. And I want to say production two. It's a little bit better than the prior one, but not by very much this time. Instead of being in the Cavern, it sounded like it was just a blanket on top of it. What do you think?
[00:52:45] Speaker A: I will say four on arrangement three on production. I'll say five on the melody. I like the rest of it. I didn't like the chorus, but whatever. I was going to say six on musicianship. I wanted to really throw them a bone because I liked this one, I think more than the first one. The parts that I liked. I'll say six on the music. And also too. Because whatever he was doing in the solos fit this song. Even if it wasn't technically melodic. It felt a little bit more. And even though where he was going off, off, it felt like it fit this song. Okay, I'm cool with it here. And what am I missing? Am I missing something?
[00:53:16] Speaker C: Lyrics.
[00:53:17] Speaker A: I guess five. I was really paying attention for a song called Runaway. It sounded like they took it in a different direction.
[00:53:23] Speaker C: I started off promising and then just slowly devolved and this part wasn't horrible. I'm curious to see what they do with the next five songs on the other side.
[00:53:31] Speaker A: Yep. And I'm Curious to see if it does sound better. But if you're saying other people complained about production, either they're just listening to exactly what we listen to, or this album is not well produced.
[00:53:42] Speaker C: That was back in the day. They were saying that not now.
[00:53:44] Speaker A: Oh, okay. So there you go. Yeah. So it's not us.
[00:53:47] Speaker C: Probably not. Well, this was interesting. I never thought I'd get two cat bands in a row.
[00:53:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:52] Speaker A: All we need is Peter Chris, right?
[00:53:56] Speaker C: Is that what's going to happen next week? We're going to spin the WH Man. Peter Chris solo record is going to come up. Is that what's going to happen?
[00:54:00] Speaker A: Imagine.
[00:54:02] Speaker C: Oh, I should have seen said anything. The Wheel's gonna do that now.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: Or the band lion. Or the band named Lion.
We still have to get the second half before we talk about that.
[00:54:10] Speaker C: True, Unfortunately. All right, do your thing.
[00:54:12] Speaker A: We are part of the Deep Dive Podcast Network and the Boneless Podcast Network.
[00:54:16] Speaker C: Boneless. You don't like those chicken wings without
[00:54:18] Speaker A: the bone, Like I always say. Great bunch of guys took us in right away. If you want individual podcasts about bands, I don't think White Tiger's on there or White lion, but I think Kiss is on there there. So you get a little bit of the cat thing. You get Zeppelin, Tom Petty. Right. Heap, you name it. Most of it is probably on there. So check them out. And Mark, where can they find this
[00:54:37] Speaker C: on the Interwebs, Rocker lit pod, all the social media. Rockwelledpodcast.com do the polls to the merch. You know what to do. Put us on your auto downloads and read us five stars. Wherever you rate your podcasts. Next week we get to have the torture of five more White Tiger songs. Hopefully they can change our mind. I don't have much faith that that's to happen.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: Well, two out of four isn't terrible.
I think you're probably giving them higher scores than you thought you were.
[00:55:02] Speaker C: Is it really two out of four, though? Really? It's really one song and a part of a second song. Maybe.
If you look at the scores, it's not really very good. This may be one of the lowest recorded things so far. I think it's overall four right now.
[00:55:16] Speaker A: We got to throw some sevens next week.
[00:55:18] Speaker C: Yeah, okay. If we throw sevens, I'd be very surprised.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: You never know. He might surprise you.
[00:55:23] Speaker C: You're a very positive person. I'm not that positive.
[00:55:26] Speaker A: There's no covers on this. Are there. Are there any covers on this?
[00:55:28] Speaker C: As far as I know, no. I didn't look through the whole thing, but I don't think so. No, he wouldn't do covers. He's a great guitar player. He plays faster than everybody. That was a quote. I can play faster than those guys. That's really all it was about.
[00:55:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:39] Speaker C: All right, we will see you next week.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: Ciao. Ciao.
[00:55:43] Speaker C: Later.
[00:55:50] Speaker B: It.
